Spider chains are not permitted at Hotham

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Charlie

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hongomania said:
i laugh at this when dad tells me about driving up in the 70s. in a rear wheel drive 3 speed HR holden wagon. without chains. on a dirt road. with snow.

I don't want to unnecessarily prolong this discussion, but, snow alone won't stop a car with decent tyres, it's when it freezes that your old man would have come to grief
 
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Yardsale

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Every car I have ever bought, I have found whether or not it will take chains before even adding it to the list of candidates.

The Hotham road crew cater to the lowest common denominator. They have to. If one of the lowest common denominator get it wrong - EVERYBODY pays the price, the road crew, the people who have to sit at the top or bottom of the hill, the freight company, the businesses (lift company included), RMB, Tow Truck driver, clearing staff.
 

dossa5

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Yep

I think you may have just added a few more pages now Yardy.
laugh.gif
 
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teckel

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Nup. LCD will take diamond pattern chains as required. Travel up mountain on a sunny day and park. Coming down though will be in a blizzard. Get out chains. Oh sh***** They don't work. Rim too large, so they slip off, or suspension in the way. How do they get down?
 

gareth_oau

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I remember sitting in my thredbo apartment one morning following overnight snow and watching this youngish fool driving up the hill repeatedly in his bogandore without chains on, then slifing backward down the hill when he didnt make it - he attempted this 4 times before giving up.

next attempt he semed to have found some chains and had put them on and I thought "clever boy!!!".

Half way up the hill the chain flew off and he made rather a nice mess of his panel work.

he either didnt know how to fit them, or borrowed a dodgy set from a mate.

I didnt chuckle out too loud, honestly
rofl.gif
 
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skifree

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Why do they not heat the road? There is certainly enough hot air around to run through the pipes to keep the road clear of ice.
 
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FlatLander

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teckel said:
Nup. LCD will take diamond pattern chains as required. Travel up mountain on a sunny day and park. Coming down though will be in a blizzard. Get out chains. Oh sh***** They don't work. Rim too large, so they slip off, or suspension in the way. How do they get down?

True and you see this a lot.

Unless the LCD's hire from a reputable chain hire outlet, who make sure the chains fit, and the LCD can fit them. Or.....if need be, and chains cannot be fitted to on their vehicle because of 'fooly' sick low profile and/or wide tyres, and plenty of other reasons - then the customer is informed of the situation and "here sir/madam/person let me find the bus timetable for you".
 
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FlatLander

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sixty_eight said:
Lost revenue there....they should sell them a bus timetable.

they have already paid a surcharge for breathing our alpine air. That surcharge covers all normal 'non-strenuous' activities (eg walking, talking and perusing bus time tables).

Anything else and they need to pay an additional fee for higher level of service (eg polite customer service and useful information)
 
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skinavy

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gareth_oau said:
Claude Cat said:
gareth_oau said:
Claude Cat said:
gareth_oau said:
yes, I'm not gormless I'm well aware of this. Let me simplify the question.

someone who lives in England and decides to drive to the French Alps for a long weekend in their audi.

They arent going to lash out and fit winter tyers for the 3 days they are in the snow, so what might they do to get their audi up there?

Actually they do get winter tyres as you run the risk of getting booked for not having them in the French Alps. Also from October to March they are required in all of Austria and Germany. For the 3 years I lived in the UK I changed the tyres over on the Renault twice a year in order to drive over to Tignes and also over St Michael im Lungau. That being said also good to have when Portsmouth was a foot deep in snow.
 
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driz

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gareth_oau said:
yes, I'm not gormless I'm well aware of this. Let me simplify the question.

someone who lives in England and decides to drive to the French Alps for a long weekend in their audi.

They arent going to lash out and fit winter tyers for the 3 days they are in the snow, so what might they do to get their audi up there?

An increasing number of people are fitting winter tyres for the UK winter, especially the past few winters where we've had cold temperatures + snow hang around for a while.

A lot of the resorts popular with brits (eg Morzine) are low enough and salted/ploughed frequently enough that you'd probably be OK on normal tyres. But you also need to carry chains.

Mind you, even if you lived in Folkestone it's still about a 9 hour drive to the Alps, so people probably don't tend to do this for a long weekend.
 
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Shrek

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FlatLander said:
dossa5 said:
hongomania said:
i laugh at this when dad tells me about driving up in the 70s. in a rear wheel drive 3 speed HR holden wagon. without chains. on a dirt road. with snow.

I think the HR was 2 speed

not if it was manual.

Also probably wasn't fitted with fat tyres that didn't allow the fitting of chains!
auto was a powerglide. 2 speeds.

manual was a 3 on the tree and there was a 4 speed manual box avaiable. my parents had a blue HR station wagon, with a 186 and 3 on the tree. the wheels were 13 inch, no idea of the width, probably about 5 inches.
 
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Hermannator

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I like the idea of winter tyres, but due to temperatures being too high for 345 out of the 360km journey from Melb to Hotham, it would be like:

1. Webber driving his F1 car from HQ to monaco on super soft qualifying tyres
2. Motocross riders riding their bikes with knobby tyres on the bitumen to the track, attempting to race on them and then riding home again
3. Using tyres made of butter
4. Using tyres made of cling-wrap and filled with water
5. [insert additional likenesses here]
 

teckel

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One thing that anyone who is considering getting winter tyres should be aware of is that a winter tyre is inferior to summer tyres when the temperature is above 10°C - braking distances can increase by 5%. So, while you're driving around town during the week, or on the highways on the way to the snow, your braking performance is considerably disadvantaged. Yes, winter tyres give better performance below 7 degrees, but that's not commonly encountered in Sydney, and only occasionally in Melbourne.

The other thing that I haven't been able to determine is whether these temperatures are at a cold start, or if it's after travelling some distance when the tyres have actually warmed up. I suspect the former, which would mean that braking on summer tyres would be quite OK for a few degrees below 7 after travelling a few kms.
 
"There seems to be no actual Australian definition of a snow chain,"

Snow chain definition from VicRoads - Road Safety & Network Access file of 16.09.11
" A flexible, interconnected series of metal links that is capable of being attached and remain attached to the outer drive wheel of a vehicle in order to increase traction on ice or snow or slippery conditions."
 

nicole2292

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Many people on here are complaining about this problem, I have been one of them. However, I'm keen to do something about this issue for the benefit of all those affected.

I have not had a satisfactory response from Mt. Hotham Resort Management Board with regards to this matter so I am going to collect some more information with the aim of taking this further.

IF YOU ARE AFFECTED THEN PLEASE COMPLETE MY ONLINE SURVEY HERE: http://www.snowchainsurvey.info/

Please share this link on facebook and with anyone you know who has been negatively affected by this ruling.

Hopefully with some real information gathered in one location we can put together a complete and compelling argument.

Please PM me if you want to help out. Nothing will change if we don't work together on this matter.

Cheers,

Nicole
 
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gettingtooold

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Hi Nicole. Do you have a commercial interest affected by this decision ? If so I suggest that this be disclosed as many of us on this forum tend to be cynical towards posters with vested interests. Not saying that you have, but it does read that way. A PM or even better an elaboration on line would go down well.
Cheers and welcome.
Col.
 

nicole2292

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I have no commercial interest in any way what-so-ever with Mt Hotham or snow tyres or any type of chain distribution or hire company.

I'm simply doing this to help out all the people who are affected and complaining on this forum because together we can do more than a single person.

There is a disclaimer and privacy policy on the web page.
 

nicole2292

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I am curious why you think it read that I have a commercial interest when my first line read "I'm keen to do something about this issue for the benefit of all those affected"?

Is it just that most people are so cynical these days they just assume the worst of everyone and that my trying to actually help other people with this situation is difficult to actually comprehend or understand.

I purchased the domain name with my own personal funds and set up the webpage in my own time simply to try and do something about this situation.

So if people want to join in on this and work together as a community of snow lovers then please complete the survey at:
http://www.snowchainsurvey.info/
 
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trappers

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Hi Nicole, yes people these days ARE cynical and suspicious especially online
smile.gif
especially towards total strangers (and with good reason I might add!)

Good luck with your survey and perhaps a little background on who you are, and what u r trying to achieve might go some way to developing trust
smile.gif


James
 
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trappers

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As did I ( that is a moderators job
wink.gif
) but not everyone will. Honesty is the best policy online, if you don't have prior form in an online environment, then being honest and totally open is the only way to engender trust. That is all I'm suggesting our new friend Nicole does. No avatars, pseudonyms, traceable, trackable, and understanding why and what is being attempted... All helps.
 
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gettingtooold

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Could you please post a copy of your inquiry with Hotham RMB so we may be able to have an accurate account of your correspondence and therefore judge their lack of reply. Then it may assist us when replying to your survey.
 

Astro66

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@ Trapps, Just trying not to discourage her. And show her something other than suspicion.
smile.gif


@ Nicole, Hi Nicole, welcome. I won't take your survey as Hotham doesn't really impact me.

But I would be very interested in your results.
 
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cqen2l

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AstroSki66 said:
@ Trapps, Just trying not to discourage her. And show her something other than suspicion.
smile.gif


@ Nicole, Hi Nicole, welcome. I won't take your survey as Hotham doesn't really impact me.

But I would be very interested in your results.

Geezus I just spat my beer astro. You've whined long, hard and more than anyone about the impact the banning of spider chains would have at Hotham.

You owe me a Heineken fella.
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
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laugh.gif


Bro, you have no idea where my head is at. Either do I most of the time.
wink.gif


BTW. Get your butt to SIC and Astro sponsored beer will flow.
thumbsup.gif
 
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Hothski

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From Hotham RMB Facebook

Mt Hotham > Hi George,
The resort had a recommendation a couple of years ago on this matter, as a result an analysis was conducted each year on road issues and other matters associated with driver patterns, driver experience and chains. Consulted were VicRoads, Police and other resorts.
Once becoming aware of the safety and other issues, a decision had to be made, making no decision would be turning a blind eye to a danger. As a consequence the declaration was made and circulated in September last year.
Thank you for your comments.
 

FlatLander

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nicole2292 said:
I am curious why you think it read that I have a commercial interest when my first line read "I'm keen to do something about this issue for the benefit of all those affected"?

Is it just that most people are so cynical these days they just assume the worst of everyone and that my trying to actually help other people with this situation is difficult to actually comprehend or understand.

I purchased the domain name with my own personal funds and set up the webpage in my own time simply to try and do something about this situation.

So if people want to join in on this and work together as a community of snow lovers then please complete the survey at:
http://www.snowchainsurvey.info/

Jees give the young lady and break.

I am pretty sure that early on nicole2292 stated that she was affected by this decision. Why does she have to justify anything to anyone!!!
 
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FlatLander

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Hothski said:
From Hotham RMB Facebook

Mt Hotham > Hi George,
The resort had a recommendation a couple of years ago on this matter, as a result an analysis was conducted each year on road issues and other matters associated with driver patterns, driver experience and chains. Consulted were VicRoads, Police and other resorts.
Once becoming aware of the safety and other issues, a decision had to be made, making no decision would be turning a blind eye to a danger. As a consequence the declaration was made and circulated in September last year.
Thank you for your comments.

Again I state that I believe that Hotham have made a decision re: chains, based on a lot of good advice and information (as they have stated), in the interests of getting people into the resort in the quickest and safest way possible.

As everyone has indicated, the GAR Harrietville to Hotham is like no other road to any resort in Aus. It can be very hairy.

Eg, imagine driving 50m above the summit of Buller in a blizzard, or cruising around Mt Mackay Telstra tower in a blizzard when visibility about 3 feet. OK so you can drive to the car parks at Falls and Buller well thats like driving to the old ticket box on the Hotham road, gee sometimes there is even snow on the road there. Its not quite the same folks.

And if you dont like it then go to falls and pay a squillion $$ for over snow transport, or go to Buller and pay $20 per person to have your luggage transported to your accomm (if you are lucky you wont be abused and have your luggage hurled from the top of the troopy - I havent meet any lucky ones yet!!!)

All the resorts have their challenges which is why we love them.

Again I have a car that will do 170km/hr (downhill and using 98 octane)but I am restricted to whatever the local law says I do...same thing
 
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ODNT

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A little off topic
Regarding the chain laws of VIC, (we usually ski NSW ) is it a requirement to have your chains fitted whilst parked @ Hotham overnight ? Do you get fined ?
What do you peeps do?
Any chain theft stories @ Hotham ?
I'd prefer to leave chains on for longer periods in anticipation of being snowed in
 

FlatLander

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ODNT said:
A little off topic
Regarding the chain laws of VIC, (we usually ski NSW ) is it a requirement to have your chains fitted whilst parked @ Hotham overnight ? Do you get fined ?
What do you peeps do?
Any chain theft stories @ Hotham ?
I'd prefer to leave chains on for longer periods in anticipation of being snowed in

ODNT, no requirement, no laws, no thefts that I have heard of. Although keep an eye on the forecast, if snow is forecast (even if it isnt) just fit the chains when you park. Much easier to drive out if there is a snow fall, or simply remove the chains if not required
 
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