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News Stanely Name spur track clearing. 23, 24/11/19

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Bushwalking Vic. are doing a track clearing working bee on Stanley Name Spur later in Nov.. (23, 24/11/19)

    I am not sure if they are clearing the whole track from the Circuit Rd. or just the bit that goes up to the Cross Cut Saw from the intersection with Queen's Spur logging track.
    Either way it will be a good thing. I was hiking up there in Nov. 2017 and it was quite a slog through the scrub and a crab crawl up to the Cross Cut Saw.

    6/10/19 Edited to remove text formatting, should now be visible in dark & light schemes.
     
    #1 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2019
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  2. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Black text again.:blb:
     
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  3. neilmny

    neilmny One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Looks fine to me.........o_O..........I see black text on every post in the forum?????????
     
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  4. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m guessing you use the light scheme.

    I’ll sort his formatting when I’m on a real machine.
     
  5. neilmny

    neilmny One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes I do use the light scheme.
     
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  6. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I just type stuff on an old desk top computer. I know nothing about these other matters.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    That’s the issue, when you copy & paste the text into the thread it carries formatting from the software you type in over.

    The fix is to copy & paste into note pad which strips it to txt only then back.
     
  8. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    You will have talk a bit louder into the two tin cans and the piece of string I am using. Or use a bigger bamboo mat to make bigger smoke signals once you have woken my carrier pigeon up.
     
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  9. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Expressions of interest are now being taken by Bushwalking Victoria for volunteers to help with the track clearing on Howitt Spur, Stanley name Spur and some of Queen's spur road for the last weekend in November 2019.If you can spare the time, can be of use with power or hand tools and can get your car down to the Upper Howqua Campsite then look them up on the interwebby.
     
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  10. stansi

    stansi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    "Queen's spur road"......... Is that how they describe It?
    I don't think it's been a road past the Upper Howqua Campsite for twenty years.
     
  11. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    The foot track at the junction of the two branches of the Howqua River that leads to Stanley Name spur track and the Cross Cut Saw is still known as Queen's Spur road. The 2018 Edition of the SV Buller- Howitt Map no longer shows the continuation of the said route out to near Mt.Buggery and The Pimple. As Ubi Steve commented once , that back in his 20's(?) one could drive a 4 WD the whole way out there. ASFAIK now that route is not even used by Timbertop school groups. I think it is being abandoned to nature. I have never walked that route but I know a friend who tried to get up to Mt. Buggery that way and had a horror hike and had to turn back.
    It is very overgrown in places from recent reports. Glenn Van Der thingy 's walkers' notes on the latest SV Map of the area seems to corroborate this hunch. Rooftops maps have also given up showing it as a route . It could be reopened to walkers along that old bench cut logging road but it would take camping near that four ways track junction, and using chain saws and whipper snippers to recut what is only 4-5-6 kms of bench cut track.
    The track clearing team are not going to bother with that section when they head out to work on the bushwalking routes in the area later next month.
     
    #11 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  12. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I understand it was abandoned as a track / fire track once the bridges collapsed, they were huge logs from memory. Naturally no one wanted to pay for replacement bridges and big logs do not comply with code any more so it was going to get bigger than ben hur to do anything.
     
  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Correspondence with the track clearing co ordinator of volunteers suggests that just the upper SN spur to the Cross cut saw and the Howitt spur will be cleared including the first section of the Queen's spur track. The number of volunteers will dictate what is feasible in terms of track clearing. I would go and help but am tied down that weekend. That very loop is what I walked in Nov. 2017.
     
    #13 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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  15. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Queens Spur was once a magnificent open ash forest walk once you dropped off Buggery all the way to The Pimple. Then the once only logging road came (around '89) and then it was never the same. The same as Stanley Name Spur. I am very fortunate to have seen many such areas before logging took such amazing forests.
     
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  16. CaptainC

    CaptainC Addicted

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    I was on the track clearing. We cleared from the campsite at Upper Howqua camp to the junction of Howitt Spur track and Queen Spur track. Then we cleared Howitt Spur track to the top, and Queen spur track to the junction with Stanley Name Spur track. On Sunday one group also did some clearing on Helicopter Spur, I'm not sure how much. We also discussed how we could approach it next year to clear more. There were a few ideas which will be followed up. Not sure of numbers but I think that there was 14 volunteers plus the ranger. Better than last year when we only had 7 volunteers.
     
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  17. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh such good work. :) .My dream is that the path out to the foot of Mt. Buggery is cleared from the SNS junction with Queen's Spur track. If I can get away for the working bee next year I would be happy to help. However this year I was unable to get away that weekend.
     
  18. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    They need a first attack dozer(D4) to go over the old logging road right out to the pimple.Enough stuffing around out there....action is necessary.......wild fires are comming for sure.....how you expect to manage that area without a decent access track for firefighting vehicles.....it’s absurd.....Surley you can see the folley of the management actions and neglect out here!Time to stop wasting funds on the like of the FHAW fiasco and use the money on plant and experienced operators of these earth toys!.....
     
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  19. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    But Team Bears applauds the actions of all volunteers associated with track clearing under Parks Suoervision in those spurs joining the AWT.My god how did we get into such a mess in the first place!Were we trying to stop bushwalkers from going anywhere....was this some kinda containment strategy to keep humans from getting out there?.Unhealthy tracks spells unhealthy folks!!
     
  20. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Walking tracks are precisely that. They are not roads for vehicles. No need for heavy machinery to push anywhere people want to bushwalk and this clearing was about walking tracks. As for fire control, when the time comes DELWP bring the dozers in but they are not for pushing vehicle tracks. These tracks are containment lines and are a mess after the dozer has done its job. Sometimes they will come back after the fire and clean the tracks up. Fire crews try not to get near the fire and don't work after dark. Fire control in Vic is only about pushing control lines with dozers and dropping fire retardant from sky. Last week we had ideal conditions for backburning but it was night time so it didn't get done. No wind and under 4 degrees but we get a notice they may backburn during the day if conditions are suitable. It has been too windy. The CFA only get involved when private land is affected. In fact, when the fire came through here in 2003, all the fire crews buggered off. That was after 3 weeks of playing cricket and being fed and watered. I think the whole fire control issue in Vic needs a rethink from the bottom up but certainly cutting dozer tracks all over the place when there is no fire will not do any good.
     
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  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    No one wanted to pay for fire track maintenance. So the thousands of kilometers of fire tracks put after the 1939 fires as part of the Stretton Royal Commission recommendations have slowly been abandoned. Parks have never been funded for the volume of maintenance required.

    Lobby your local state guvment member.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_bushfires
     
  22. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes , this is true. Parks Vic. receive 0.5% of the total Vic. state gummint budget allocation per annum. They can hardly afford tea and scones for their staff rooms let alone manage the assets already in front of them .There are so many disused logging tracks that were once used as bushwalking tracks such the North face of Mt. McDonald, The Clear Creek Track coming southwards off Mt. Clear , Queen's Spur road out to The Pimple et al. that are now masochist hero hikes only now.
     
  23. legend

    legend One of Us

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    The majority of the subalpine/mountain country from the very early '70s through to the big 02/03 fires was very open country. There were very few tracks and most spurs were seen as good routes (as seen on the VMTC (SR Brookes) maps. King, Queen,Stanley Name Spurs had no logging roads or walking tracks. The route from Upper Jamieson Hut to MacDonald was a beautiful open spur, the same with all the major spurs up onto Buller, Clear, Knobs, etc.
    The same applied to those around Hotham, Feathertop, most sides of the BHP, Kent, Snowy Bluff, Pinnacles, etc, etc.
    Almost all of the high/alpine country had been affected by the '39 fires and other fires since then. But in time the scrubby regrowth (hop bush and acacia) quickly die off (in around 20 years) and IF there are no fires, the understory becomes grassy with the odd fern. Sadly, the current generation of bushwalkers have to wait a few more years to be able to walk unhindered through the bush, but sadly the fires seem to burn much more frequently than in the past.
     
  24. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    We have wound back to far with fire prevention......dropping fire retardant from aeroplanes is costly .Having good access trails allows back burning operations to be considered as part of the fire control.Trying to push trails around running fires ain’t that bright.Its better to have good existing control lines already in place.Well maintained fire trails.We are wasting heaps of money on fire suppression with aircraft...I have to strongly disagree with Xplora on this topic.
     
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  25. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    What legend says is correct...now our fire intensity and frequency is throwing spanners in the works ...looks like dry sclerophyll forest is creeping uphill and wet sclerophyll forest is retreating.
     
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  26. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I actually don't think we disagree on all things here just the bit about running dozers through the bush. If you have any idea where a fire will start and then where it will travel then you would be doing better than most. So where do you put the control lines in now? Just bulldoze the lot. Some of the current thinking is headed the right direction. Cold burns to reduce fuel load around critical infrastructure and private assets (home etc) but the bush needs to burn so letting it do so is not all bad. It is part of the regeneration and is a concept that escapes those who only look as far as their own lives or wants. The problem in Vic is fire control is a paid job for public land and they will not back burn at night when conditions are good. There is no need for access tracks either to do these burns.

    The scrub is still thick after the 2003 fires so it may take more than 20 years to die off. This scrub is important for the regeneration process and until it dies back, we just have to put up with it or do as what was done on SNS. A bit of pruning. There is always a lot of comment about how these things should be done by most people who have very little idea of what is involved in fighting bushfires. They are happy to sound like experts. Being on the fire line as well as the command and control is an eye opener. My experience is only in NSW and I am now probably very much out of touch as well.

    I know aerial fire suppression is expensive but I was there in the 90's when the water bombers saved Bilpin in the Blue Mtns. I actually saw that fire from the air as well. The RFS teams worked so hard and so close to the fire then they were getting drenched when the choppers dumped on the fire.
     
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  27. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Back burning I have witnessed and been involved in many moons ago....when burning was certainly conducted at night in cooler (slower fire activity )using existing tracks on top of ridgelines as control lines....tankers and slip on can control the edge best....then crews working diwn hill slowly burning everything on the uphill slope down into the gulley.When Fire behaviour was moderate....back burning can be a most useful tool.Or letting fire creep out to control lines....then trying to hold edge with crews during the following days....aircraft certainly invaluable for spot overs......but fire intensity has been ferocious in some recent fires ....so control lines fail....spots get away....and you just keep trying to hold the spread hoping for better more moderate weather ....mean while asset protection for dwellings and critical infrastructure.If burning is not done at night then that is just silly......most certainly I think we all agree fuel load after those intense fires is now a brand new problem....but I cannot see things going back to the state that Legend refers to......things have changed .....fire control suppression etc is now a new ball game....it’s now extremely difficult..
     
  28. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    That road in to the pimple should be able to support the entry of a D4 on the back of a small truck.Walking a dozer in there is ganna take days!You need a fast response of a few hours to be effective .It was the only access into there previously ......it needs to be maintained....leaving fords for river crossings if required.I don’t think the DSE would be too happy if we just closed the West Kiewa Logging Rd....as no access just complicates fire fighting plans.Unfortunately you cannot airlift a D4.....and a first attack dozer would be the preferred weapon for fire control when you can get it on the job quickly.
     
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  29. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    The three heavy earth moving machines that were being used to repair and clear the Clear Creek road and the Nobs Track were trucked in on huge flat bed semi articulated lorries that did battle with Brock's road. I saw one last month ( Nov. 2019 )returning to Mansfield unladen, near 8 Mile Gap. I thought that was odd to see such a vehicle on such a remote dirt road. Later I deduced the reasons for such things.
     
  30. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not sure what is relevant section for discussion.There seems to have been a fair bit of fire activity around Bogong and Miitta and Shannonvale ,Granite Flat,Mulhauser and Long Sour.Team Bears are hoping we have not had any impacts on our pivnic tables.The fire area maos seem to show that fires have impacted middle sections of the Longspur Route....hopefully fire activity around our most isolated picnic table was very low?Any body know more about closures of High Plains ,AWT.fire impacts etc.
     
  31. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  32. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I was up on the BHP on Monday . The sign at Langford Gap near the hut and the aqueduct said a number of tracks for walkers heading east off the BHP Plateau are closed due to fire. It was very smoky in Bright and Mt. Beauty this week. . The NE looks very dry , dusty, fly blown and ready to burn . I would guess the Mitta valley denizens will be becoming increasingly concerned as the summer rolls on.
    I will lodge a B.C. trip report with some photos and my account of the Champion Spur ORDEAL :-0 .
     
    #32 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Dec 12, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  33. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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  34. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Fires are still out of control near Ensay, Buchan and the Snowy River. These (like the ones near Bogong) have been burning for close to four weeks now.
    The Buchan - Jindabyne road (Barry Way) has been reopened but might close when temps heat up again.
     
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  35. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have plans to walk the SNS track from the Circuit road up to the X Cut saw or some such point quite soon. I shall report back.