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Question SUV Tyres good for Snow/Highway?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by snowgum, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Howdy,

    I have 2007 Toyota Kluger AWD, with tyre size 245/55/19.

    I'd be appreciative of any suggestions for good replacements.

    (Sorry SnowTyres we don't want to buy dedicated winter tyres)

    Ability (grip etc...) on snow and wet/dry pavement is very important. Handling and low noise is also important but we are used to a bit of SUV tyre hum at speed from past SUVs.

    It would be good if the tyres last well but not at the expense of performance.

    Our uses?

    We drive from Melbourne to the snow about 5-6 times per winter. This often includes a week at Hotham mid winter - with the associated "fun".

    We tend to do the odd bit of gravel (Stirling) both in the snow season and summer but we don't need to use the car on major / serious off road trips.

    - just as a by the way, so far our Shortlist (ideas) is: Pirelli Scorpian Verde All season, Michelin Primacy and perhaps Yokohama Geolander Highway (xx 55?).
     
  2. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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    245 55 R 19 is an unique size as was only ever used on Toyota Kluger.

    Suggest you use 255 55 R 19 to replace 245 55 R19, there is a much greater range of tyres to choose from.
    Best also to select a tyre with 3PMSF winter rating rather than just an All season M+S tyre.
    M+S marking on tyres is very misleading as there is no performance standard or traction or stopping tests to pass as the M+S designation refers only to the tread pattern. You will find the M+S symbol on off-road, All Terrain tyres and on many all-season tyres. Even some high speed rated summer tyres may have this designation. It says nothing about the tyre’s rubber compound and how it will perform on snow and ice.

    If you don’t want a dedicated winter tyre short list the Nokian WR G3 SUV All-weather winter tyre as an option as it meet as your requirements.
    https://www.nokiantires.com/all-weather-tires/nokian-wr-g3-suv-2/

    What does "All Weather" tyre really mean?
    If you prefer to use one set of tyres all year or live in an area where winter is not as severe, Nokian offers an All-Weather line of tyres which will meet your needs. Nokian All-Weather tyres carry the Severe Service Emblem (the 3PMSF mountain snowflake symbol), which means they meet winter performance testing requirements. Nokian invented the All Weather tyre category specifically for the North American market where drivers typically prefer to use one set of tyres all year.
    Designed as a winter tyre first, our All-Weather 3PMSF lines can be used year-round and still provides class-leading winter grip. Further, unlike other winter tyres it will not be damaged if driven during the summer months.

    Are the Nokian WR G3 SUV Winter tyres or All-Season tyres?
    We refer to them as All-Weather tyres, not All-Season tyres. Whereas All-Season M+S tyres are best suited for spring, summer, and autumn and can handle some winter conditions, the Nokian WR G3 SUV are true 3PMSF winter tyres that can also be used during the rest of the year. This differs from winter-specific tyres that should not be driven in the warmer months due to excessive tread wear.

    https://www.nokiantires.com/company...high-performance-suv-tire-for-all-conditions/
     
  3. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A if you can get them in your size for the Kluger which I believe you can (friend in town here has them on their Kluger). I get great wear out of them on my Defender and do heaps of mountain driving. They have the "winter snowflake/ mountain" rating symbol.
     
  4. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thread hijack

    @snowtyres I am thinking of new wheels for the volvo XC70. I was thinking if dedicated winter tyres would be a good suggestion. I will put these on in June and remove at end of season.

    We will be driving up to thredbo every weekend from the digging campsite (So sat and sun). The only thing is every fri and sun night we will be driving to/from canberra.

    Thoughts?
     
  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have Falken Wildpeak AT3W in my truck and so far its been a great tyre with better wet weather grip (on tarmac) than the Goodrich they replaced. They are M+S and offered plenty of grip in the one time I have had them on snow (dirt road) and are handling the rocky dirt roads I am dinking about on quite well.

    Falken make a ZIEX S/TZ05 that will fit your Kluger
     
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  6. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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  7. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maxxis mud snow tyers
     
  8. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have snowtyres on spare wheels that a mate in the trade found me cheap, swap them before and after winter, to and from Melb/Buller every week, works well for me.

    It’s also cheaper for me as my stock wheels are 21” so $$$ tyres, other wheels are 18” and the snow tyres are cheaper, plus I do all my km in winter so it has worked out well for me.
     
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  9. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    205 R16 Maxxi Bravos for around $200 brilliant grip off road and they have surprisingly good grip on bitumen....compound is softer than some So accounts for better grip on bitumen and naturally they wear somewhat faster.Not excessively noisey on diesel rodeo....that $200 price is pretty enticing .....any off road you do on wet slippery dirt you will be rewarded with heaps better grip
     
  10. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    What carveman says is good....get hold of another rim....fit up your mud snow to rim 5 and rim 6 and swap over rears in winter months....I think that's what he is saying....?
    Tyre man said maxxis may be bit noise on front...but I run with them all round now all the time and am happy with grip and handling and noise is not an issue for Team Bears.
     
  11. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Running cooper at3 on my transporter. Didnt notice road noise until about 40000 km looks like ill get about 80000km out of them. Same tyre on my ute up to 90000km with plenty more tread left. Very grippy on snow.
     
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  12. Mr_Ed

    Mr_Ed Hard Yards

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    +1 for the Nokian WR G3. We had them on our Forester for a year living in Vancouver. Lots of winter driving in interior BC and never felt we needed chains. Performed well in summer (though obviously doesn't get as warm as here).
     
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  13. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    What's those Nokian WRG3 cost in Australia if available here!
     
  14. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can't remember but I reckon mine have done 70k and still have life left.
     
  15. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks

    That is my plan. I guess I will need to get in touch with @snowtyres to sort out some costs.
     
  16. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I got very lucky there - a mate has an alloy wheel repair shop and he had some old rims lying around that fit my car that he sold me very cheap.
     
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  17. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's probably because they know how to clear a road in BC.
     
  18. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I swap all four but yeah. The tyres my car came with have no place off the road.
     
  19. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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    "While winter tyres have safety benefits when used appropriately, they can be dangerous if used incorrectly. Mixing winter tyres with other tyres on the same vehicle can result in different levels of grip on the front and rear axles, which can make the vehicle unbalanced and difficult to control in an emergency or during hard braking. This has been been shown to have been a contributing factor in crashes. "http://www.nzta.govt.nz/media-releases/new-rules-for-winter-tyres-from-1-april/
     
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  20. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    IMO - not necessay. Thredbo road is pretty simple with AWD and road tyres. You'll probably only have a handfaul of snow days at road level and often just the last 5kms.

    Save the cash on tyres and put a wood stove in your tent instead.
     
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  21. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am looking to get all terrain tyres for my RAV 4.
     
  22. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    If you are going to buy me a new Nissan Patrol then I will drive that. ;-P .
     
  23. Belongil

    Belongil Hard Yards

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    I’ve got Hancook dynapro on my rav and they are great, pretty good value and have worn super well. Awesome in snow, gravel and not too loud.
     
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  24. AiguilleRouge

    AiguilleRouge Hard Yards

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    Honestly I have done 100,000 + km overseas in Colorado, California, BC and Europe in Snowy conditions that you will never experience in Australia and you don't need anything fancy in Australia regarding snow tyres just because you visit the snow in winter. As a shuttle driver in Colorado we were on Nokian tyres, but we were also dealing with serious altitude and conditions and in a black ice situation nothing is going to be slip proof it is about taking caution at the wheel in those conditions. My advice would be to just get something off the rack from Bob Jane designed for a typical Aussie dirt road or the like to the specs of your car that you can use year round. That will carve up any snow day road conditions in Australia. I currently have Pirelli Scorpion ATR (the all terrain) on my Subaru Forester, not the cheapest set but certainly worth the extra $50 a tyre and it handles everything so well. Good wear around town driving in Sydney and quiet on highway. Last September the storms on Alpine way to Thredbo and Kozy Rd to Perisher carparks and it handled snow brilliantly quietly gripping the road in the windy conditions from Sponars to Perisher carpark. Generally speaking the Nokian tyres would be designed for -15 degrees or colder. Later I tested the Scorpions around to Guthega base to pick-up a stranded friend who couldn't get back because chairs were shut. No problems on cold dirt but sure got the car muddy! In Summer it's had me on some great dirt and muddy roads without a hitch. Your Kluger won't know itself. Also a good tyre around town. If you move to 255 they will fit fine. Other's to consider would be the Hankook Dynapro or Bridgestone Dueler for a Kluger. I had the Dueler All Terrain on my last car a Holden Colorado and they were awesome and had Dueler for use in Sand dunes which I wouldn't do in my new Forester. Personally when I first got my Forester I couldn't wait for the factory Geolanders to wear out and replaced them as soon as I could at 40000km. The scorpions are looking at about 50000km life.
     

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  25. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The nastiest snow condition for driving is temp at around +1 C with snow falling and settling, and high humidity. Pressure from tyres or feet instantly compacts the snow to ice. It's unbelievably slippery, and any slip or skid polishes it to an even higher sheen. Those jolly videos online of cars and buses slowly but inevitably sliding into each other on snowy city streets are all shot in such conditions. When the snow becomes ice, vehicles have great difficulty steering and braking as well as loss of forward traction. Even one centimetre of this faux snow on a road surface will cause big problems.

    Unfortunately, Australia gets such conditions relatively often because of the mild temps and wet snow common in a region with only marginally alpine geography. Really the only thing that works well is a mechanical penetration of the ice, such as tyre studs or chains. The temps aren't low enough for dedicated winter rubber compound to make much difference.

    Winter tyres can be pretty noisy. Some are better than others, but by the time you've got them on your car, you own them and have to live with them for several years. Studded winters are unavoidably noisy. Either option will wear out pretty fast in the warm temps found away from the snow areas where the vehicle will spend most of it's time.

    I think if I was living in Australia again, and traveling to snow reasonably often, I'd have an AWD vehicle with M+S and just carry chains. Probably only need the chains once or twice a season and only for a handful of km at that. Most of the time the M+S would easily handle conditions and would last better and have less tyre noise for the 95% of 'normal' driving. A compromise, yes, but the chains are a very good solution for slush/ice, actually better than a true winter tyre.
     
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  26. mick chopps

    mick chopps Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    This. This. And all of this.
    I’m probably going down this route for our xtrail although I’m realistic that any gains from a better AT tyre will be vastly exceeded by improvements in my driving.
    I’ve had no issues getting up the stirling rd in 6inches of snow and slush or frozen Baw Baw with the stock tyres that are on it and no chains. I think we get a touch carried away sometimes.
     
  27. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have a Kluger, have always used Scorpions awesome tyre in the snow maybe a little noisier on the highway. Amazing mileage 60K or more.

    See attached a pic of conditions driving out of Falls last year, no chains took it slow, they worked fine!!
     
  28. Darb

    Darb Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    BFG KO2 any good ? I rate them for non snow stuff (4wding and black top)
     
  29. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or, in NSW, AWD and carry Snowsocks or similar.
     
  30. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hi Nidecker, (and all)

    Thanks for your information. Good to learn the Scorpians are so effective. We had a set on our RAV4 and survived some pretty tricky terrain. I assume they were the ATR or its er. forerunner.

    The exact choice is interesting:
    Because we have an oldish Pathfinder 03' with low range and Cooper AT3s, I don't plan to need the off-road features of the ATRs very often. Sure I'll do some 'good' gravel on approaches to snow and then the snow per se. But the vast majority of the time will be on suburban roads and occasionally highways /major tourists roads. So wet/dry bitumen performance (handling, comfort on undulations and breaking) will be the breaker. So for me, the Verde AS looks good.

    With ATR, I wonder if I'm over dialling the off-road aspects and loosing out a little on bitumen?

    But it's tempting!!

    Another issue with 255s is whether my current snow chains will fit. Perhaps a lower order problem?

    I note there's less experience with Michelin SUV tyres out there. So far. Also not a love for Yoko SUV rubber even other forums.
     
  31. driz

    driz Hard Yards

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    I have a Subaru Impreza which takes 205/55R16 tyres, so a bit cheaper than those with larger diameters. It's been quite difficult finding tyres of this size with a M+S type tread without going the full 3PMSF route. I've got a couple of tyres on the short-list, depending on mood:
    - Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus - looks to have a decent siped'ish winter tread. 4 tyres for about $708 from tyresales
    - Vredestein Quatrac 5 - all season with 3PMSF rating, from demontweeks.co.uk, who ship to Australia. 4 tyres for about
    $750 including shipping - plus a bit more for someone to fit them

    It could worth checking out demontweeks if they have anything in the size you're looking for.

    I'd also consider snowtyres in the list but since they don't publish a list of prices I tend to exclude them, even though I admire the attempts at injecting sanity into the chain/vehicle restrictions in Australia. I'd have bought a cheaper Corolla if a 2WD with 3PMSF tyres wouldn't be required to fit chains
     
  32. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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    Any tyre only carrying the M+S marking, and not the 3PMSF symbol, are NOT snow or winter tyres.
    All snow or winter tyres, as defined in European ECE regulation 117.02, are marked with the 3PMSF symbol.

    M+S marking on tyres is very misleading as there is NO performance standard or traction/stopping tests to pass as the M+S designation refers only to the tread pattern.
    You will find the M+S symbol on off-road, All Terrain tyres and on many all-season tyres. Even some high speed rated summer tyres may have this designation.
    It says nothing about the tyre’s rubber compound and how it will perform on snow and ice.

    As you can see the M+S rating doesn’t really mean much. The 3PMSF rating does.
     
  33. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    In the UK/Eu, one tyre that's seems to get a good rap is the Michelin CrossClimate:

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92866/michelin-crossclimate-tyre-review

    It's a summer tyre that's been altered to be snow rated rather the a winter tyre changed to tolerate bitumen/ warm temps. Ratings Reads well. But it's not available on any site I've seen. Not sure it's even made for 19" rims or larger (just a slight problem!).

    FWIW: Bob Jane are keen on the Michelin Primacy SUV (#4?) it's seems to be roughly similar to the Scorpian Verde AS. It doesn't have the rad' V shape pattern of the CrossClimate though.

    I guess for Aussie/NZ, with our small market and tiny amount of snow driving, We're lucky to have even a limited choice of all season /winter tyres.
     
  34. Darb

    Darb Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    BFG KO2 on my 4wd. As an all terrain I rate them muchly. Quietest tyre I’ve had , thus far have handled numerous very testing conditions. Wearing very well.

    It has the 3PMSF logo and the M+S rating

     
    #34 Darb, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
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  35. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    Yep
     
  36. stansi

    stansi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep
     
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  37. Darb

    Darb Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  38. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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  39. blutek

    blutek One of Us

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    MrsB has Michelin Primacy SUV on her awd RAV4. Used them new last winter (about 10 times over the Perisher Rd in August. Did consider an AS but ended up with the SUV. Also have Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on WRX & done similar trips. Carry chains for both but not needed last season. We don't use 'summer' tyres in alpine with under 4mm tread, we spun a Liberty with 2mm many years ago.
     
    #39 blutek, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  40. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    They seem to be a "4WD advice cult" .... thing
     
  41. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    My Falken A/T3W have the 3PMSF symbol
     
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  42. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have spent all morning trying to find something comparable to the BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO2 within certain parameters.

    1. Price , at around $215 fitted ( best quote I have found) per tyre
    2. 215/75/R15 ( can stretch to 235/75/R15 apparently)
    3. My location is Tooma with much driving in snow , ice , wet conditions during winter.
    4 Tyre must be reasonably durable over summer.

    Some have tried to steer me towards Kumho AT51 or Yoko Geolander GO12 , GO15. Support has also been forthcoming for the Hancook AT-M RF10 and even some of the Goodyear Wrangler series. Some of the others mentioned in this thread either don't cater for the size or are not comparable in price.

    I find myself being drawn back to either the Goodrich ALL TERRAIN T/A KO2 or the Hancook AT-M RF10 as the best fit for my parameters. I have always had a favourite tyre fitted , I wont say which , but thought it might be worthwhile investigating alternatives.
    Anyone have any thoughts..........
     
  43. Darb

    Darb Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just Like the first time you saw her across the bar, with soulful eyes and that disarming smile, you knew. Your mind was made.

    Buy the KO2.
     
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  44. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    They have been my tyre of choice for a while now but sometimes it doesn't hurt to examine alternatives or get other peoples thoughts. I mean I live in a little joint where almost everyone follows everyone else's lead on almost anything which leads to insular and backward / stagnant thinking sometimes.
     
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  45. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not sure I can help much with the tyres above -
    a mate if mine used a BFG TA on his pathy and approved if them. Havent seen the KO2.

    My needs are simpler than others on this thread, as I have Pathfinder for more rugged terrain. So the Kluger has the luxury of pouncing around on bitumen, with just a few trips year to the snow. maybe 1 or 2 of those will involve good gravel.

    So I can concentrate on a strong highway tyre, and hopefully obtain some fairish (ideally good?)

    So an all- season tyre sounds good. But and its a big but. Australia has a poor (small) selection of AS tyres. I suppose the economic arguement for major manufacturers to import is low - given our tiny market overall and even smaller ski/mountain market.

    But this is a shame for keen / regular snow visitors. There’s some highly rated new summer biased AS tyres available according the big reviewers in UK/ Europe. I doubt we’ll see them.
    Fwiw: I have been told by an industry rep that in NZ, the mix of used grey import cars and mix of summer / winter tyres has led to some rather nasty cash rates. Something I believe the industry are trying to avoid.

    But you have to wonder how stupid would one be - not checking for different tyre (season) ratings on a used (imported) car from Japan/ Korea??

    Or would we be just as bad? To save a buck??
     
  46. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Fair point. I have had it rammed into me from my old codger that the most important safety aspect of a vehicle is tyres , the rest doesn't mean much if your tyres are rubbish. Some of the cheaper stuff isn't all that bad for a while but will fail in certain respects , chiefly durability and reliability. Take the Achilles Desert Hawks A/T tyres , cheap as , decent grip in a fashion but 10,000 kms down the road and your replacing them because they are stuffed and probably were well below what you need after only 5000 kms.
    As for the newer summer biased AT tyres getting rave reviews in Europe , these reviews should be read under advisement due to Euro summer and Aussie summer conditions being entirely different animals. I would wait until they have been tested in our conditions before making a judgement on them.
    With regard to mixing tyre types , forget it and it should be made a criminal act as far as rental vehicles go. That said there are plenty of examples of just that here in Aussie , if your going to hire a car to take somewhere like the Alpine region then for gods sake check the tyres.
     
  47. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I just got Hankook DynaPro All Terrain tyres fitted to my 2003 RAV4. I like it ! . However this was not a cheap exercise at all and they better ruddy well last the distance.
     
  48. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I had a good look at the Hancook DynaPro All Terrains , similar in price to the Goodrich KO2 ( my dealer of choice wanted $225 for the Hancooks and $219 for the Goodrich ) and look a decent tyre to be honest but in the end I stayed with what I know and trust. I snagged a set ( 5 ) Goodrich KO2's at $210 a donut with a free wheel alignment and nitrogen ( with free refills) thrown in as a valuable loyal customer. Yeah I know the nitrogen is pretty much a waste of time but it was free and its hard to argue against something that is free. Anyway punters its always worth haggling over price , especially with things like tyres - very competitive business and the dealer will bend over backwards to keep a customer coming back , I mean look at my deal $45 off the tyres , $67 for the alignment and maybe $50 for the nitrogen , so that's $ 167 off the top all for saying I might go elsewhere because they offered me a better deal.
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  49. stansi

    stansi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    A lot of people also miss the historical information about the Goodrich KO2's puncture resistance.
    For Me that's worth dollars as well.
     
  50. Xwing

    Xwing One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I remember driving on snow covered roads in my 6 cylinder Cortina back in 89 with re-treads and no chains = not so good but still made it, still.... don't get re-treads.