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Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by snowgum, Apr 26, 2018.
It's not Mike n Mal Leyland is it ?
It's a beast
I'm not sleeping any time soon!
"Ask the Leyland, ask the Leyland..."
Shit... now I've got the earworm back...
Too falken late for me. Already paid for them. Falk it.
So I need tyre advice. I drive a 95 model prado and want tyres which are mainly for city but also don't get crazily slippery on the snow. 265/70/R16
Of those discussed here I can get:
Pirelli Scorpion AT+ $190
Bridgestone Dueler D697 $190
Falken at3 $225
Hancook Dynapro M/T2 $230
BF Goodrich K02 $280
Seems the K02 is the best tyre but I'd much prefer a cheaper option. A lot of people seem to like the Pirellis but I'm a little confused about the AT+ as opposed to the ATR and not sure which is better. All the brands seem to have fairly similar sounding tyres, for instance the dueler d694 seems to be similar to the d697 but a softer compound, so not sure I've got the right ones.
Anyway, thoughts? Anybody had bad experiences with the dueler or AT+?
Thanks for your help.
K02 is top priced but also carries a lot of "me mate has them" type carry over that is generally lacking in snow driving references.
Road n snow =
MT is overkill.
Have put a lot of kms on D693 and D697. They're fine for your purposes.
BFG T/A K02 are my choice for mixed uses; good grip offroad, run cool aired down, bit skittish on damp bitumen.
A big tick for these tyres.
Cheers, so the AT+ isn't a bad tyre and might even be better suited? Would be pleased with that.
Thanks, would like better grip on the damp bitumen if you think one of the others offers more. While I'm thinking about my snow trip next week in potential snowy conditions, much more pressing would be control on damp roads.
Here in Melb. the ultra lockdown is coming so driving anywhere more than 5 km from your front door will be a shoot on sight kind of crime if you get my drift. Good luck with the tyres.
I guess my main point is the K02 popularity is based on 4WD gossip from those that use the tyre in non snow conditions. I.e, bush tracks n beaches.
If it's "A bit skittish on damp bitumen" it's not gonna perform in snow, slush and the associated wet road conditions found on the mountain roads.
I am a AT3W fan.
I've read the AT3 is a softer compound tyre. So presumably good for the snow, but might not last long?
Wearing well on my truck. 40k + and going strong.
Overly hard tyres are awful Noah. Better to have half the life and double/triple the grip, and stay alive and be in control.
In addition, I’ve found old SUV (formerly good) tyres become hard in the Aussie sun and I believe O2. Hard tyres are awful on bitumen - you feel every little indentation. Yuk! My 2 cents!
Okay cheers, I'm convinced on the Falkens but I think I'll still buy the Pirellis because the reviews seem good and the price is cheap and they seem to be good compromise between on and offroad/snow. I think they must be on special at my place because they're $100 more everywhere else. Also, figured out that the AT+ are the newer version of the ATR.
I've used them over 3+ seasons to drive Mt Beauty to Falls every 2nd day on average (c. 2000kms each year).
They do just fine in snow, slush and the associated wet road conditions.
I've had to fit chains once for grip (not compliance).
There is a specific combination of hotmix and damp that they don't grip as well as normal and that's normally an urban thing - twice on the BHP road.
Year in year out they were rated by users on a US consumer site as the top 4WD tyre.
My last set returned 55K kms over touring, towing, high country tracks, desert road corrugations and gibber.
I'm on my 3rd set and they'll be my fourth too.
They're exxy but my local KMart Tyre and Auto talk price and discount them.
Just put 4 corners of the Pirelli Scorpions on the ute on Friday
No doubt the K02 is a very good tyre but at a premium price that I believe is more attributed to "4WD gossip" than a performance differential.
And what gossip are you relying on? First principles' gossip: if something's expensive it can't be worth it.
I take it you've never driven on them.
They where on my truck when I bought it and I found them slippery on tarmac so I went looking for an alternative.
IMHO, K02 are the darlings of the 4WD social media chatter, like Coopers where until people started questioning the chatter.
IMHO K02 are a good tyre but there are alternatives for less money and arguably better performance on tarmac, slush and snow.
Its not a competition and everyone is free to make their own choices.
I get 4 for $900 at KMart so I don't know where you get your price info from. Gossip?
If Noah can get 4 Scorpions @ $190 each that's a good deal but not a regular one.
Nor is 4xK02 for $900 a regular deal.
For a bit of light hearted tyre banter
Snow Tyres in snow
Snow Tyres in mud
I get it for the asking.
I also don't rely on 2nd hand tyres when judging their quality.
Good for you eh, are we really arguing about .... tyres.
I mean ya make a choice, see how they go and next time round either get the same or try something different.
Just put some chains on any old tyres and you'll be right
Used to drive work utes on K02 tyres, they were nice until they got about half way through their life then they got hard and noisy and horrible. Would not buy them myself based on that experience.
I have Goodyear muddies on my 4wd (MTR kevlars) and they're not huge, only about 30.5" I think, but I've had it up in the snow plenty and for a really good mud tyre they ride great on bitumen and in snow conditions, they have kept their comfort after plenty of use too. I always put chains on when it gets hairy though, I do like Goodyears though they seem to make some good well riding tyres.
I would think most of the good AT tyres around these days would do the trick, I too was skeptical on the Coopers when I was researching tyres a while back but this was due to this "chatter" so who knows if it actually was justified. I'm sure they make a nice tyre too.
Get tyres for road and maybe a little off-road adventure if that's your thing, get some nice easy to use chains for when it gets snowy, we don't really have any proper winter tyres (studded etc.) here on our markets anyway so all the snowflake and M+S stuff probably doesn't mean all that much.
FWIW, we run Cooper AT3s on our Pathfinder - 2003 - which as the older car we’ll use for a (Now) rare Off road trip. AT3s seem pretty quiet and surefooted on the bitumen. I haven’t tested that often but they held up to Mt Wellington, Gippsland OK - nothing to extreme.
For softer SUVs:
Our Softie Kluger 07’ has run Pirelli Scorpion All Seasons Verde for 18 months and we’re impressed with them so far for the range of use - mostly metro commuting plus main touring and snow access.
In the Aug 9-10 Dump at Buller last year (and in snow On gravel at Stirling) the Scorpions provided good grip, stopping, steering and confidence overall. (A small tyre category AW in Oz: only similar tyre was a Michelin).
Agree on the Scorps
They cost me $1100 and the bloke is supposed to be cheapest on the coast
But wow the grip compared to the slippery eel Kumhos it came with
FWIW: My Scorpion All weathers we’re about $1,000 fitted b&a from Bob Jane 19” 245/55 ~ Dec 2018.
admittedly price will vary with not just Dealer & time* but also size/popularity.
* I also note that of late, inflation has been low!
Practicing Dad jokes for Fathers Day!
Thanks all. Yeah, not sure why they're so cheap but glad to hear I'm getting a good price which is why I wondered if they're good or not.
The scorpion verde tyres look good and probably match the driving we do, but my shop doesn't stock it and the AT+ tyres price seems as good as I'll get for a decent tyre.
Thanks to the K02 people, too. Even in recommending them there was mention of the damp warm roads being an issue, and as I drive the wild roads of Sydney I think that will be a bit of an issue. They sound like quality tyres, but not quite right for me or at least no need to spend more to get em.
So thanks for all the advice and I'm gonna get them AT+ tyres tomorrow.
We get awesome mileage out of these admittedly highway driving mainly.
The Pirelli SCORPION™ ATR is a versatile all terrain tire for use on a wide range of surfaces, designed to provide confident braking and handling on all terrains.
Got the Scorpion AT+ tyres. Noticeably better than my worn Cooper AT3s and chinese brand AT tyres. I've never noticed a big difference when getting tyres, more just subtle thing with grip etc, but have only owned a 4wd a couple years. Does a 4wd accentuate the benefits of a good tyre? This is instantly a softer, smoother and quieter ride. Not an endorsement of the tyres btw, as I think they'll need more than a drive around the block to prove themselves, but just curious.
Interested in recommendations for either all season tyre mud and snow that perform really well in the snow and slush or all seasons snow tyre (is there such a thing calling @snow drive solutions) as don’t want to swap tyres between seasons.
Have a Hyundai Santa Fe currently fitted Continental contisportcontact 5 so probably something for suv versus proper 4wd (size is 235 55 R19).
Have no confidence in the contisportcontact 5 for snow conditions so on drive up to Perisher so fitted chain one of the days this week when there was significant snow on the road though probably being overcautious.
Thinking long term fitting chains regularly is also going to get annoying.
Falken, BFG, Pirelli all discussed above. I have been using BFG A/T KO2 for years on my Defender, mainly because I've had great experience with them and haven't been motivated to change. Falken AT3 sound awesome and I'll be putting Pirelli AT+ on my wife's Forester before next season. These are all 3PMSF and all season use tyres.
Thanks you answered my daft question, so there are 3PMSF all season tyres
As you have requested JP here is my recommendation for your Hyundai Santa Fe - 235/55 R19 105V - Nokian WR SUV 4.
This is an all-weather winter tyre specifically designed & marketed for year round use, features special tread compound & extensive tread siping to supply high levels of traction & braking grip at low temperatures and is approved for severe snow conditions according to ECE 117.02 snow test.
There has been many discussions on the interpretation of the M+S and 3PMSF marking on tyres, it is very confusing. Hopefully these two links may help to clarify………….
(1) "The Evolution of Winter Tires"
Extract from this link - "3PMSF-branded all-season and all-terrain tires cannot match the traction of dedicated winter / snow tires in all winter weather conditions and should not be considered a replacement for where and when a dedicated winter tire is needed.”
If you want to discuss further my contact details are on this link
Thanks that is helpful. My snow chains are easy enough to put on, but I am a bit soft not sure I can imagine years of regularly doing this in winter
I can vouch for that statement.
3PMFS AT tyres are certainly much better than M+S AT or MT tyres but dedicated snow tyres are a big improvement again over 3PMFS AT tyres.
Order of grip .... IMHE
3PMFS Snow tyres
If you read the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations Exposure Draft
on Page 22-23 Definitions you will see a snow tyre means a tyre that is specifically designed for driving on roads affected by snow or ice;
By definition it means that AT M+S tyres and AT tyres with 3PMS marking are NOT recognised as a "snow tyre" as they are not "specifically designed for driving on roads affected by snow or ice"
NSW Transport for NSW (RMS) is currently reviewing the NPWS snow chain requirements, based on their recommendations from 2009. https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/document...vsi-57-driving-in-ice-and-snow-conditions.pdf
The proposed changes are likely to follow those that are contained in the Victorian Alpine Resorts draft https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov.au/land-management/alpine-resorts
@snow drive solutions , why do they not treat the roads here before events to stop ice build up as they do overseas. I will be looking for a tyre that is S marked but can be used in normal usage. Happy to change every 2 years as you are too.
My Dynapros dont like wet roundabouts.
Alpine roads are treated in NSW to prevent ice build up by RMS and their 'Perisher & Thredbo Road' contractor Stadelmann Snow Clearing
Nokian "All-weather" winter tyres are designed to be used year round......please advise your vehicle make, model and tyre size and I will provide the details for you.
I was meaning treated to stop ice forming at all as overseas with brine and beet. Clearing does not stop black ice.
Just looking for advice son tyre brand for use in the Alps. Are there any that work in our conditions as well. I always thought this was not really possible
Update on my earlier post/question #186 about tyre options.
Looks like I am getting some All Weather tyres fitted to my Hyundai Santa Fe just ahead of winter. Getting excited for season next year and the drive up to Perisher.
Even though it’s an AWD as I had no confidence in the factory fitted summer contisportcontact 5 some chain days I chanced it, others put the chains on. They are a really nice tyre but the contisportcontacts are not designed for winter use (did create some funny snow memories on them from a previous vehicle ).
These new tyres should dial up the winter performance of my SUV significantly, look forward to not spending time in the chain bay next year
Thanks to @snow drive solutions and Snow Tyres this this could be last photo of my vehicle in chains.
Thanks JP, always pleased to help
Nokian WR SUV 4 in size 235/55 R 19 105V XL is a great choice for your Hyundai Sante Fe
Enjoy the video
Who sells those scorpions that cheep? Tempe Tyres $270 Beaurepairs $370?