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Svenfit or Intuition?

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Annabuzzy, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    At this point this is a theoretical question. However, I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on the benefits of a Svenfit (Zipfit) GP liner vs an Intuition Dream Liner?

    Purpose would be alpine resort skiing in a Lange RS 130. The boot has stock liners which are pretty good but not perfect, and custom foot beds. The desired outcome would be a fully supported foot in the shell with increased control and reduced pressure points.

    I’m sure the answer will be of interest not just to me, but to others.
     
  2. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can't comment on intuition but +1 has been very happy with svenfits. Even better than the custom foam strolz that preceded those boots. Never had to go back for any tweaks.
     
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  3. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have had several intuitions (dreamliner), but not a zipfit.

    My experience with the intuitions has been very good. They have been a dramatic improvement over oem liners (current boot lange sx 120). The retention has been better, resulting in better performance and less pressure areas. Due to the denser foam, they last much longer, and take longer to pack out. I did wear out a pair after around 150-200 days. As a bonus I find them easier to get on and off, easier to get in and out of the boot, and warmer. FWIW I have a standard tongue and wear them without laces.

    It is worth getting them professionally heat treated. For my second set, I couldn’t find any in my size locally, so ordered them online. I heat treated them myself using the recommended sock, rice and microwave technique. It worked, but was fiddly and troublesome. I wouldn’t do that again.
     
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  4. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I could add that +1 was advised to put svenfit liner on then insert it into the boot. That was a PITA. Just leaving it in the boot has worked much better.
     
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  5. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  6. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I had a Svenfit (actually labelled something else, there was some company split blah blah blah) liner, bloody brilliant. But I could not fit it into NTN boots so let it go when I moved the 75mm boots on. New owner has got more of a bargain than they realise maybe.

    It was heavy compared to Intuition that comes in some tele boots, but for resort work that's not a deal breaker.

    Over the long term the Svenfit was a much better liner.
     
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  7. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Similar experience with intuition. I used them to prolong the life of a shell that was working well for me but I ended up using them in my touring boots as well.

    A couple of the boys at work are using these in their touring boots with good success, pretty full on break in period however.

    https://aussieskier.com/products/sidas-thermo-crt-custom-ski-boot-liner
     
    #7 CarveMan, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  8. ralf_plough

    ralf_plough One of Us

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    I have intuition, wife has Svenfit. I think the Svenfit is a bit better, in that if they are not moulded right from the start they will reshape themselves, the intuitions will not in my experience, and need to be remoulded.
     
  9. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    You’d be better in a Svenfit in your case @Annabuzzy.
    If you are after precision, control from the firmist fitting liner in an RX you will have much better success with a Sven rather than an intuition.

    The Svenfit lace is much more dialed in than the Intuition system and the narrower fitting cuff of the Sven fit will work a shitload better in your RX shell.

    Intuition are much warmer though....
     
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  10. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Both liners are great.

    Neither will be as comfortable as your stock liner from a feel perspective. They will fit better but are harder against the bone, if you get my drift, ie they're not plush liners. They're specific fit liners which is what you're after by the sounds of things.

    The intuition won't fill out to take up space between the liner and the shell whereas the Svenfit will. This can be important for some from a feel perspective, particularly if your specified use is on piste.

    The Intuition is more touring specific then the Svenfit IMO. I believe the Svenfit will be more suitable for your resort requirements. They'll probably outlast your shells too.
     
    #10 DPS Driver, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  11. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    You know you’re a ski weirdo when you look at a link of bloody *ski boot liners* and think ‘wow, they look great, nice design, very tech ‘ LOL
     
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  12. bigmac

    bigmac Hard Yards

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    I had ,Stroltz foam very happy and now have svenfit in Lange boots, extatic. However I do as instructed and put the liner on first and use a boot horn to put in boots, ok if warm. Didn't your +1 find that leaving the inner in the boot causes the heel to move a lot of material which then requires time to re mould?
     
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  13. Crawf

    Crawf Hard Yards

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    Have you had boots fitted from there? Heading over in January and trying to work out whether I get a new pair, or wait until back in Australia for the start of the southern hemisphere ski season (leaning towards).

    From what I can see the pulse stuff looks similar to surefoot in the way they fit and create a liner.
     
  14. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not the liners. Nikki purchased boots at Gravity Thredbo and the bootfitter there was based at Pulse, so we called into Pulse and got an extra tweaking
     
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  15. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    This PITA lacing and sticking your foot in the shell is the major caution I have around Sven fit.

    Do you really need to do it?
     
  16. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I did it with my dreamliners and it’s absolutely fine. That said they had a pretty slippery finish on the outside so it was an easy process.
     
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  17. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    +1 does not have problems with heel material moving. Lace at bottom stays done up, remaining lace removed. Treat as normal boot.
    Another friend does it as prescribed.
     
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  18. Olgreg

    Olgreg One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeh me too but it started to wreck the back outside heel of the inner so now I make sure they are warm to get them on. My svenfits are 8 yrs old and going strong. Superb hold down around the ankles, lots of room with the neoprene forefoot for my fat ugly wide feet. Probably need to get new footbeds now but I just buckle up in the morning and don’t touch them all day
     
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  19. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Both Intuition and Zipfit / Svenfit have different liners for different fitting boots. The various liners take up more or less space between foot and shell depending on the design chosen. I have a close-fitting Lange boot, I bought a Grand Prix Zipfit expecting them to be ok, and I can't buckle the boots when using the Zipfits; not even close. They do make a Gara liner which is their lowest volume liner, and that may be a better option. Moral of the story is to be careful when choosing the correct liner.

    Intuition make low volume (LV), mid-volume (MV) and high volume (HV) liners. If you're trying to soak up excess room in a boot that is comfortable but maybe a little too big then replacing the stock liner with the right Intuition liner would be a good option. Then you have a choice between wrap liners and tongue liners. Lots of options to choose from.

    https://intuitionliners.com/product-category/the-liners/
     
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  20. almontyrat

    almontyrat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    OK exactly the same question, svenfit or intuition, but for a three buckle tele boot (Garmont Venus). I have mortons neuromas and the stock liner just will not pack out enough around the ball of my foot to stop the neuromas kicking off after an hour or so. 5 heat mouldings later, the liners are shot and still not happy feet. My feet are very small (23.5) with a narrow girly heel and big wide hobbit forefoot. I wear a custom foot bed with metatarsal pad etc. My main concern with an after market liner is that they may be a bit tall for my boot and interfere with my chunky girl calves. I will definitely be looking at low volume liners, not sure if svenfit do those? oh and wrap around or normal tongue, what's the pros and cons of each?
     
  21. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Senfit and Zipfit, I think I had Zipfits have all the action about the calfs and up. About the foot area is just a neoprene sock thing. Which suited me as I have proper Oz feet with a proper width to the forefoot and not sticklike feet that eruo shoes seem to assume. This sounds similar to your description @almontyrat I also have proper svelte ankles and found this was the area the Ziptfit really helped. Being a telemarker I really enjoyed the space my toes and forefoot had to pressure each edge of the ski and the tight fit about the ankle when flexing the bellows.

    Almost certainly the liner will extend above your boot. I had mine in a pair of Garment Venus I think, whatever the white one was which was a women's boot but it suited me and the extension above the boot was not an issue for me. But if your calves as suitably strong and take up a bit of volume then the fit maybe a little firm above the ankle.

    You will not be able to make the decision remotely, you will need to fondle the things in the shop and have some faith they will perform better than they look.

    I have just googled this and realised this is exactly what I have had for years on the left foot. It only cuts in on a long day BC or touring.I did not solve this with my Zipfits. The sports / muscle medico I went to about this pain in my foot reckoned the problem stemmed from my back and so his treatment was to work on the back. I did not really pursue the treatments but I do notice I have it cutting in later or less since the limited treatment. I have also tried to improve my level of training (not hard when you don't do much) and I think that has helped. But now I have a bit more reading to do to consider other options if I have more issues. My current boots are Scarpa TX Pros and the intuition liners they come with.

    The Zipfits should leave space for some other padding or whatever in the foreboot. But now I understand your pain,that feeling of stepping on a pea sized pebble is just a real bother when you know you have 4km and 400M vertical to go to get close to home. And your corresponding need to do something, anybloodything about it. I'd be concerned that no liner will really address this.
     
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  22. almontyrat

    almontyrat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Thanks for the detailed response. If you are getting neuromas I suggest you see a podiatrist. I used to be in agony all the time when walking until I got some orthotics with a metatarsal pad. Made a huge difference to my life. My orthotics are basically a footbed that I wear in all shoes with a special pad that sits beneath the ball of my foot to help widen the gap between the third and fourth metatarsal bone. Now days I only have trouble in my ski boots and very occasionally my hiking boots thankfully.

    I am taking a drive to Wadonga tomorrow as Paul's sell both brands of liner so we should be able to find which one best suits my particular conformation I will indeed be able to fondle them and see which seems to fit the bill.
     
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  23. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Excellent plan.

    I was very sad to let my Zipfits go.
     
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  24. slotele

    slotele Hard Yards

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    Rest assured they are well loved. They are coming with me now to the Bogong Rover Chalet for a week. They are super stoked to get out again for a second life.
    Thanks again for passing on you excellent gear!
     
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  25. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    The Zipfits would probably be a better base line to work with than the intuition re your mortons neuromas as they’ll provide more room to play with around the forefoot.
    From that point your footbed will be the most important area to focus on to allow you to ski pain free with the mortons.
    I would imagine Paul has worked with a few people in a similar position.
    My wife has two Morton’s neuromas next to each other on the same foot. They won’t operate because of this. If she just had one they would remove it, like my mates wife did.
     
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  26. Any

    Any One of Us

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    I noticed last season that my Intuitions have worn out at the inside heel much faster than I expected. Maybe 250 days use, 70 or so of those touring. Not really surprised, but I was hoping for more.
    Because of it I'll probably be considering other brands in the future.
     
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  27. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    So did I mention I bought some Zipfits (Svenfit) liners? I’m pretty sure I got the Gara.

    So pre-Zipfit liners I was having problems with these boots (Lange RS 130 wide - the 100mm last). I was having pain but more importantly my foot was going numb no matter how loose the buckles. I’ve skied in this identically shaped shell last in the RX 120 with no problem, but for some reason I was having real issues in the RS 130. Given the only variances were plastics in the shell, and the liner, I figured it was the liner causing the issues. I’m sure in time...quite a deal of time...the liner will have packed out. But I wanted a precise yet comfortable fit, so opted for Zipfits.

    So as I say I got the liners and they were heat moulded in store. I finally got to ski on them today and wow, they’re fantastic!! My foot is firmly held in all directions. But I felt no real discomfort and such minor discomfort I started the day with didn’t exist by the end of it.

    The only real discomfort was getting the boot off at the end of the day. The liner was so close fitting it was like it was suctioned to my feet!!!

    I did plan to get rid of the power strap as just one extra element of fiddle, with limited benefit, but it’s not as big a PITA as I first imagined, so I’ll leave it for now.

    The precise fit of the boot + liner really gave me precise control over my skis. Maybe even 5% more than with foam liners. I do think maybe the liner stiffened up the boot though.

    These are amazing. They’re very expensive but I have to say, worth it. Well worth it. Having now tried them I recommend them to any keen alpine skier whose gear matters to them.
     
  28. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    We have similar stories. I was looking for a closely-fitted boot. I bought the RS130 Wide (29.5) expecting them to require some work. I stomped around my lounge for a few days and felt they were unbelievably good ... for around eight or nine minutes. Then my foot went numb and the pins and needles began. Too much pressure over my instep. Too much pressure everywhere really, but they did feel great for a few minutes so I figured I was onto something. I snapped up a Grand Prix Zipfit hoping that would maybe solve my problem. It didn't. The boots were so closely fitted I think I needed the Gara.

    Anyway, to keep things brief, I sold the RS130 (100mm last) and bought the SX130 (102mm last + a bit more volume over the instep). Problem solved. I still can't fit the Grand Prix liners in the SX130s but I'm happy nonetheless. Great boots. Never thought I'd ever fit my feet into a Lange. How times change.

    I'm hanging onto the Zipfits as I want to use them one day. Might mess around with them in my old shells.

    The powerstrap and laces are handy if you're going to put the liners on before you put the shell on. A lot of people don't bother and they just use them like a normal liner. If you're going down that route you can easily remove the powerstrap, if not the laces as well. I've also read of some people swapping out the hard, ropey laces for something a little more comfy - football boot laces for instance.
     
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  29. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    One more thing. If you can stretch to a heated boot bag at some point I'm reliably informed the boots will quickly conform to your foot each and every morning you put them on. Nice!
     
  30. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    My lodge has a toasty boot room. Noice!!
     
  31. Any

    Any One of Us

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    cold or hot boots is a bit of a double edged sword for me.

    i leave mine in front of the heater overnight, and if im not putting them on at home i put them in the passenger footwell and have that heater on also. its also very important that i leave them buckled up so that the plastic remembers the shape.

    when warm theyre considerably easier to put on and more comfortable initially. my boots are such a tight fit that theyre painful to put on cold.
    because i leave them buckled up they are already mostly the correct shape, but do confirm that last 10% in seconds.


    however the warmer temp means more blood in my feet and my progressive buckling process takes longer.
    too warm boots means my feet have a chance to sweat, which evaporates or freezes later (which imo is the actual reason why people experience cold feet while skiing).
    and even cold boots adopt that last 10% of shape pretty quickly still, thinking back on it, its gotta be less than 30 mins.

    just in case they have them; never use those peg things to hold your boots.
    these things:

    youve got a warm environment with mouldable inners, and suddenly you put the weight of the boot in a peg for 8 hours. come morning your fancy inner has done what is designed to do and deformed under the heat and pressure, possibly permanently, and your boots are ruined.
    ive learned the hard way. suddenly my heel boxes ware all weird and my heel was sliding out every turn i made. very cranky.
     
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  32. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  33. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Also if you’ve got angled pegs, put your boots in toes up.

    Plus I also agree that too warm boots leads to sweat which leads to cold. You don’t need hot air to dry boots, you just need airflow, and for the boots to be warm enough that the plastic is soft enough to get in to comfortably.
     
  34. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah I figured that would be a dumb idea. Thanks!! :)
     
  35. Olgreg

    Olgreg One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Thinking of taking my old ones up to Gravity In Jindabyne for a check up and new footbeds. The old footbeds have flattened a bit and I have lost arch support. I bet I come out with all new inners.
     
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  36. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d say there is a good chance you might come out with new boots;)
     
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