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Telemark, Technique and history

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by telenomore, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hard to answer without seeing but prob comes back to where you were centered over skis at that moment (stance). Skis have varying sweet spots- Liberty very small meaning if you dont stay centered kaboom an oh sh*t moment happens, whereas the Voile have larger sweet spot so staying centered has a larger area.
    Generally catching an edge is from a flat ski so one ski is on edge the other is not. Kinda creates an A frame between the legs similar to a wedge turn. Finish those turns Ziggy with both skis. So many scenarios. You know.
    Remember all sorts of sh*t happens on teles- enjoy.
    3.09am:eek:

    In that pic of Telemark Phat skiing those Atomics which were a beast of a ski- no side cut stiff as a fence post, he would have been using all his technique and skill constantly shifting his stance every which way. Its not easy and requires a high skill set.
     
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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    That sounds right. Thanks.
     
  3. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    15616852749967132963973380220923.jpg
    Had some fun on new Evos the past week on the snow making lanes at Falls and Hotham
    Awesome powerful boot with great fit out of the box. Comes with directions for work on the liners if required. Bellows softens after a few hrs and has a nice smooth flex.
    Cant wait for new Majesty Adventure GTs so can mount the Meidjo 2.1s
    Kudos to Simon from Everest Sports here in Bright
    At last we have a local shop stocking quality Tele and Backcountry gear.
    Great to hook with you Hully even though we only did a few laps before work man your feeheelin rocks
     
  4. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nice. Are they a lighter boot?
    Did you buy them in Bright?
     
  5. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes light boot and purchased from Everest Sports in Bright
     
  6. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    And they weigh in at?
     
  7. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    15 kilos a side?
     
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  8. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    1890 GRAMS with footbed
     
  9. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  10. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Breaking news for Back Country Users......aliens trying to work out access routes to earth?
     
  11. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Same weight as Scarpa Tx Pro then. They at least look lighter!
     
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  12. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Their website has the boot in at 1815g
    Must have a heavy footbed or thermomix scales are out.

    Everest Sports has last years model heavily discounted if they have your size.
     
  13. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    my daughter reckons the thermomix scales are crap
     
  14. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    True. Ours weighs about 10g light. No problem for larger amounts, not so good for small quantities.
     
  15. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    i hadnt thought of weighing my TxPros in there to be honest
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    The finish on those Majesty skis is sensational.
     
  17. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    love my Majesty's. Be interested in a review.

    Though there are still some pairs of mine around cheap, so may just go same again! Mine have had 100+ days, and still feel OK, just a bit tatty.
     
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  18. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Fwiw: my New size 30 TX Pros are just over 2 kg (2.015 from memory), that's with the Std liner.

    It's just a tad - 15g more than my Thermliner/footbed SynerGs. I didn't think this weight was two bad for a taller /sturdier 4 buckle boot.

    I guess my first short tour will tell??
     
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  19. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    God gave us quads, so we could tele.
     
  20. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    2kgs? Christ on a bike

    I’ve avoided upgrading boots because I won’t go over my current weight of 1450g/boot on the touring clogs. And that then gets expensive per g saved!
     
  21. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Crispi Shiver tech boot 1610g tour like a god
     
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  22. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am going to inject my liners with helium, and have weightless boots!
     
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  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    MP27.0 TX Pro with footbed = 1835 g.

    Feels like a slipper. Walks like a boot. Skis like an angel flies.
     
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  24. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Formal txpro weigh in 28.5

     
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  25. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    can you have fun with the helium back at camp if the whisky runs out?
     
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  26. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Giggleboots!
     
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  27. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    ..and flexible toes/ankles!!
     
  28. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    He he - or Some Dry ice which every Tone knows is weightless! ⛷❄️
     
  29. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    ankles...........
     
  30. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    God forgot to give me calves.
     
  31. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

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    So funny reading this post. My SO is the aforementioned person, Roger H. He's still the same. Imported at least 6 Black diamond/Bibler winter single skin tents we still have in storage! He was still skiing his leathers until about 8 years ago. We are both skiing similar set ups. Garmont Excursions both, me on Eons and him BC90's. We find it does us well for the kind of skiing we do. I know I am completely mediocre, as a relatively new beginner, primarily aiming to do tele, whilst he alpines/ some tele in deep or soft. Last season I ended up having a lesson with a friend who skies as part of 3 generations of teleskiers, and I had that aha moment on Karhu Ryders. (For most of you, this is really baby end stuff given my skills but regardless, I'll share where I am at). I love these skis. SO, had taken them on a 3 wk glacier trip to NZ and had not found them fun in that environment. As I normally ski the Eon's they were much easier to turn. The breakthrough for me in instruction was sitting back on my back ski, tucked in behind my other knee as had not been weighting my back ski enough, whereas I had also been struggling to get out of and getting it into that position from wedge in the first place. On the plus had conditioned myself to a delayed lead change. Understanding the different techniques to get into parralel tele and that I might need to weight my Eon's differently really also helped. It was also great to have someone who pointed out the stuff I was doing well, because I tend to only focus on what I'm doing wrong. I'm really excited to get out on the slopes this year and have some more lessons. In terms of the Majesties, which some of you helped me with in selecting (thanks for the advice) and which Ziggy was witness to the mounting, they are way beyond my capabilities right now. Did ski them down BawBaw a few times and having mounted them central was so tempted to try going into switch, (which is partly what I bought them for), but decided I wanted to preserve my knees. Something to look forward to in the future. Maybe I'll try NTN oneday but for now happy pottering around on the current set up.
     
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm into the 2nd week on NTN - Outlaw X - and still blown away by how much better it is cp my old 75mm rig. And the largest part of that is being able to get onto the ball of the uphill foot and weight the ski. The softer flex of the TX Pros help a lot. The T2Xs had me on tip toes too often.
    Then there's the extra stability and feel. Step in/out is a bonus.
    The 6 hole mount pattern means they can be put on Safeout release plates - though getting the release tension right is not a small matter. I should be on 5 according to the weight chart but that produces premature ejections which are embarrassing. 6-7 is more reliable.
     
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  33. buckwheat

    buckwheat Addicted

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    I also love my outlaws, but they're getting a bit jealous as i develop a new relationship with my lynx. So much easier to get in and out of! Heaps lighter too.
     
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  34. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

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    Is anyone aware of any evidence of injuries on the different set ups? Obviously there are stacks of variables? I'm just going to a 3 buckle (which I think I'll have greater control of as it is the only fitting boot I've worn thus far, being the first women's boots other than my Meindl leathers), but as the gear gets more rigid, I get more concerned about knee damage. I have done some spectacular twists, including the stupid one where I thought I could ski straight onto grass and got catapulted through the air with limbs in places that I'd never experienced before. Twisting parts in boots like that has not been a problem to date, and the excursions have been mostly OK but I still don't feel as safe as I did before when I fall in the leathers. I know releasables are one option, but I hear from lots of people who have injured themselves in situations where they didn't release. From what Ziggy is saying, an NTN set up, could reduce the technique related falls if you are able to weight better, but as a relative beginner, I'v curious on thoughts in this area (Noting I am still mainly skiing on Voile 3 pin without capables, so even more flex than cables). I recall@Telemark Phat had noted one article and this one here is also interesting, which I think probably answers my question:https://braceworks.ca/2016/10/08/exercise/injury-risk-factors-among-telemark-skiers/
     
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I recently did a Q&D scan of research literature on the effectiveness of knee braces in a preventive role and the data wasn't clear.
    My knee surgeon's advice was to use a brace post-injury or post-surgery if there'd been a loss of proprioception. A local retailer, who's also a physio, of the SkiMojo* advised that it doesn't protect an already compromised knee.
    As for releases, they're universal now I think in consumer Alpine bindings so that tells you something. In XCD, there was the Voile CRB which is no longer made. There's the 7TM which I used to use but it doesn't release forward and that cost me an ACL tear. And there's the SafeOut** which is DIN rated and releases in all directions. Last winter I copped an MCL tear with one of those and that highlights a limitation to all releases which is that the force needed to keep the ski on is greater than the force needed to injure the knee in a crash. That said, I've had a number of crashes with ejection that most likely would've produced damage if there'd been no release.
    I think the most protective elements are technique, fitness and strength. Failing those - sloppy bindings and floppy boots.

    * https://www.skimojo.com/?v=6cc98ba2045f
    ** https://www.telebry.com/
     
  36. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Fortunately the ACL has the least tension when the knee is at about 45 degrees from vertical extension ie the telemark position is not bad for the ACL , whereas when the knee is fully extended ie straight as in a downhill skier without knee bend "caught in the backseat" it is tight and prone to breaking.
     
  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hyperflexion & twist can do it.
     
  38. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've just read one of the articles on which this is based and it counters one of my assumptions.
    They found fewer injuries with plastic than leather, reckoning that plastic provides more stability. My thinking was that if you did go A over T the tighter linkages in modern rigs between foot and boot, boot and binding, and binding and ski would transmit more unwelcome forces to the tibia and knee than older sloppier rigs.
    The data is quite old though. The picture has changed. There are far fewer releasable tele bindings out there, there's the advent of NTN and tele-tech, plastic now includes a range of forms, and skis have changed shape.
     
  39. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I double ejected out of my Freerides last Wednesday. Didn't really feel any force in my legs at all, so not sure, but think it was straight OTB.
     
  40. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    which model
     
  41. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Telebolt. Couldn't get my head around them, so bought a pair!
     
  42. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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  43. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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  44. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I didnt think I would like it, and centre mount looks so so wrong. But I find them a pretty good quiver killer. They do everything well. Better than my old Morphics on hardpack, and they love fresh too.

    170 is too short for me though.
     
  45. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No such thing as a quiver killer ;)
     
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  46. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Yeah sorry I agree' quiver killer' was a term invented by an American marketing person.
    To ski to the conditions including backcountry I need 4 pairs .
     
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  47. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's the ski caddy fees that are the problem.
     
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  48. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Never skied on anything with same tail width as tip ie 130 mm what would it feel like ?
    Hooky or smearing the turn ?
     
  49. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I do find I can play with riding the tails more. Neither hooky or smeary, its totally weird. Also they dont mind running straight at speed, which seemed unlikely with the massive (for me) sidecut. Apparently its a progressive sidecut, giving a radius from 14-18 metres, how I dont know.

    I was very pleasantly surprised, my favourite ski so far. I do like a softer ski than many.
     
  50. stansi

    stansi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I find them a bit noodly, ski OK in the morning, but when its chopped up I prefers My K2 Shrediters.