Telemark, Technique and history

dossa5

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 2, 2009
1,455
400
263
Ovens Valley N.E Vico
Hard to answer without seeing but prob comes back to where you were centered over skis at that moment (stance). Skis have varying sweet spots- Liberty very small meaning if you dont stay centered kaboom an oh sh*t moment happens, whereas the Voile have larger sweet spot so staying centered has a larger area.
Generally catching an edge is from a flat ski so one ski is on edge the other is not. Kinda creates an A frame between the legs similar to a wedge turn. Finish those turns Ziggy with both skis. So many scenarios. You know.
Remember all sorts of sh*t happens on teles- enjoy.
3.09am:eek:

In that pic of Telemark Phat skiing those Atomics which were a beast of a ski- no side cut stiff as a fence post, he would have been using all his technique and skill constantly shifting his stance every which way. Its not easy and requires a high skill set.
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
9,730
4,811
563
Generally catching an edge is from a flat ski so one ski is on edge the other is not. Kinda creates an A frame between the legs similar to a wedge turn. Finish those turns Ziggy with both skis.
That sounds right. Thanks.
 

dossa5

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 2, 2009
1,455
400
263
Ovens Valley N.E Vico
15616852749967132963973380220923.jpg
Had some fun on new Evos the past week on the snow making lanes at Falls and Hotham
Awesome powerful boot with great fit out of the box. Comes with directions for work on the liners if required. Bellows softens after a few hrs and has a nice smooth flex.
Cant wait for new Majesty Adventure GTs so can mount the Meidjo 2.1s
Kudos to Simon from Everest Sports here in Bright
At last we have a local shop stocking quality Tele and Backcountry gear.
Great to hook with you Hully even though we only did a few laps before work man your feeheelin rocks
 

Boodwah

A Local
Ski Pass
Jun 20, 2006
6,304
17,156
563
51
StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
boodoir.blogspot.com.au
15616852749967132963973380220923.jpg
Had some fun on new Evos the past week on the snow making lanes at Falls and Hotham
Awesome powerful boot with great fit out of the box. Comes with directions for work on the liners if required. Bellows softens after a few hrs and has a nice smooth flex.
Cant wait for new Majeaty Adventure GTs so can mount the Meidjo 2.1s
Kudos to Simon from Everest Sports here in Bright
At last we have a local shop stocking quality Tele and Backcountry gear.
Great to hook with you Hully even though we only did a few laps before work man your feeheelin rocks
Nice. Are they a lighter boot?
Did you buy them in Bright?
 

Ubiquitous Steve

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Feb 29, 2008
10,788
4,864
813
85433E7A-C186-456E-8BED-5FA5EEBEAEE4.png
Breaking news for Back Country Users......aliens trying to work out access routes to earth?
 

dossa5

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 2, 2009
1,455
400
263
Ovens Valley N.E Vico
Their website has the boot in at 1815g
Must have a heavy footbed or thermomix scales are out.

Everest Sports has last years model heavily discounted if they have your size.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
32,311
48,876
1,063
love my Majesty's. Be interested in a review.

Though there are still some pairs of mine around cheap, so may just go same again! Mine have had 100+ days, and still feel OK, just a bit tatty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skifree

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
5,912
4,381
563
54
vic
i hadnt thought of weighing my TxPros in there to be honest

Fwiw: my New size 30 TX Pros are just over 2 kg (2.015 from memory), that's with the Std liner.

It's just a tad - 15g more than my Thermliner/footbed SynerGs. I didn't think this weight was two bad for a taller /sturdier 4 buckle boot.

I guess my first short tour will tell??
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
45,037
39,254
1,563
the sunny illawarra
2kgs? Christ on a bike

I’ve avoided upgrading boots because I won’t go over my current weight of 1450g/boot on the touring clogs. And that then gets expensive per g saved!
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
9,730
4,811
563
MP27.0 TX Pro with footbed = 1835 g.

Feels like a slipper. Walks like a boot. Skis like an angel flies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: telecrag

Peagreenboat

Addicted
Jul 9, 2015
144
134
113
I started xc skiing in '73. Started on alpha boots, kandaha cable bindings and waxing Splitkein touring skis (with lignostone (compressed wood) edges. These had to be tarred a couple of times a year to keep the base waterproof and to hold the wax. About 3-4 of years I later graduated to Fisher 77 skis with rat trap bindings - aluminium edges, plastic base, wood core. They were a beautiful ski - fast and able to hold an edge on fast ice. I learnt to parallel on them - tele was rarely seen until the late '70s. However, the top layer kept delaminating on me, they couldn't withstand the extreme force I was putting on them when completing high speed parallels and cornice jumping (the Kosci cornice was amazing).
About the same time, Roger H. in my club wanted good boots and started to import heavy leather boots from the states. This made a radical difference to our skiing (Fritz Schumberg started importing Track boots from Sweden? in the '80s. He also began importing the Fisher Expeditions, and used a router to turn them into waxless skis)
The skis were replaced quite regularly (twice a season) under guarantee (bought at Nordic Ski and backpacking). Later, the 77s were replaced with 99s (basically the same ski but different paint) In the early '90s I went across to my first waxless ski (Morotto Tele steps). They were quite good, an easy ski but much slower than the waxed skis.
My last skis were a beautiful Atomic XCD. A lot shorter but wider with very good side-cut. I also went across to the Garmont plastic touring boot with Voile 3 pin plus cable bindings.
Unfortunately, my last real skiing was in 2009. A car crash with a broken neck has stopped me from skiing. But fortunately after a lot of rehab and physio I am still carrying a (much lighter) pack and still able to do multi day bushwalking trips and the odd snowshoeing too.
So funny reading this post. My SO is the aforementioned person, Roger H. He's still the same. Imported at least 6 Black diamond/Bibler winter single skin tents we still have in storage! He was still skiing his leathers until about 8 years ago. We are both skiing similar set ups. Garmont Excursions both, me on Eons and him BC90's. We find it does us well for the kind of skiing we do. I know I am completely mediocre, as a relatively new beginner, primarily aiming to do tele, whilst he alpines/ some tele in deep or soft. Last season I ended up having a lesson with a friend who skies as part of 3 generations of teleskiers, and I had that aha moment on Karhu Ryders. (For most of you, this is really baby end stuff given my skills but regardless, I'll share where I am at). I love these skis. SO, had taken them on a 3 wk glacier trip to NZ and had not found them fun in that environment. As I normally ski the Eon's they were much easier to turn. The breakthrough for me in instruction was sitting back on my back ski, tucked in behind my other knee as had not been weighting my back ski enough, whereas I had also been struggling to get out of and getting it into that position from wedge in the first place. On the plus had conditioned myself to a delayed lead change. Understanding the different techniques to get into parralel tele and that I might need to weight my Eon's differently really also helped. It was also great to have someone who pointed out the stuff I was doing well, because I tend to only focus on what I'm doing wrong. I'm really excited to get out on the slopes this year and have some more lessons. In terms of the Majesties, which some of you helped me with in selecting (thanks for the advice) and which Ziggy was witness to the mounting, they are way beyond my capabilities right now. Did ski them down BawBaw a few times and having mounted them central was so tempted to try going into switch, (which is partly what I bought them for), but decided I wanted to preserve my knees. Something to look forward to in the future. Maybe I'll try NTN oneday but for now happy pottering around on the current set up.
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
9,730
4,811
563
I'm into the 2nd week on NTN - Outlaw X - and still blown away by how much better it is cp my old 75mm rig. And the largest part of that is being able to get onto the ball of the uphill foot and weight the ski. The softer flex of the TX Pros help a lot. The T2Xs had me on tip toes too often.
Then there's the extra stability and feel. Step in/out is a bonus.
The 6 hole mount pattern means they can be put on Safeout release plates - though getting the release tension right is not a small matter. I should be on 5 according to the weight chart but that produces premature ejections which are embarrassing. 6-7 is more reliable.
 

Peagreenboat

Addicted
Jul 9, 2015
144
134
113
Is anyone aware of any evidence of injuries on the different set ups? Obviously there are stacks of variables? I'm just going to a 3 buckle (which I think I'll have greater control of as it is the only fitting boot I've worn thus far, being the first women's boots other than my Meindl leathers), but as the gear gets more rigid, I get more concerned about knee damage. I have done some spectacular twists, including the stupid one where I thought I could ski straight onto grass and got catapulted through the air with limbs in places that I'd never experienced before. Twisting parts in boots like that has not been a problem to date, and the excursions have been mostly OK but I still don't feel as safe as I did before when I fall in the leathers. I know releasables are one option, but I hear from lots of people who have injured themselves in situations where they didn't release. From what Ziggy is saying, an NTN set up, could reduce the technique related falls if you are able to weight better, but as a relative beginner, I'v curious on thoughts in this area (Noting I am still mainly skiing on Voile 3 pin without capables, so even more flex than cables). I recall@Telemark Phat had noted one article and this one here is also interesting, which I think probably answers my question:https://braceworks.ca/2016/10/08/exercise/injury-risk-factors-among-telemark-skiers/
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
9,730
4,811
563
I recently did a Q&D scan of research literature on the effectiveness of knee braces in a preventive role and the data wasn't clear.
My knee surgeon's advice was to use a brace post-injury or post-surgery if there'd been a loss of proprioception. A local retailer, who's also a physio, of the SkiMojo* advised that it doesn't protect an already compromised knee.
As for releases, they're universal now I think in consumer Alpine bindings so that tells you something. In XCD, there was the Voile CRB which is no longer made. There's the 7TM which I used to use but it doesn't release forward and that cost me an ACL tear. And there's the SafeOut** which is DIN rated and releases in all directions. Last winter I copped an MCL tear with one of those and that highlights a limitation to all releases which is that the force needed to keep the ski on is greater than the force needed to injure the knee in a crash. That said, I've had a number of crashes with ejection that most likely would've produced damage if there'd been no release.
I think the most protective elements are technique, fitness and strength. Failing those - sloppy bindings and floppy boots.

* https://www.skimojo.com/?v=6cc98ba2045f
** https://www.telebry.com/
 

rowdyflat

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 21, 2003
4,430
6,360
363
66
Yackandandah NE Victoria
Fortunately the ACL has the least tension when the knee is at about 45 degrees from vertical extension ie the telemark position is not bad for the ACL , whereas when the knee is fully extended ie straight as in a downhill skier without knee bend "caught in the backseat" it is tight and prone to breaking.
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
9,730
4,811
563
this one here is also interesting, which I think probably answers my question:https://braceworks.ca/2016/10/08/exercise/injury-risk-factors-among-telemark-skiers/
I've just read one of the articles on which this is based and it counters one of my assumptions.
They found fewer injuries with plastic than leather, reckoning that plastic provides more stability. My thinking was that if you did go A over T the tighter linkages in modern rigs between foot and boot, boot and binding, and binding and ski would transmit more unwelcome forces to the tibia and knee than older sloppier rigs.
The data is quite old though. The picture has changed. There are far fewer releasable tele bindings out there, there's the advent of NTN and tele-tech, plastic now includes a range of forms, and skis have changed shape.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
32,311
48,876
1,063
I double ejected out of my Freerides last Wednesday. Didn't really feel any force in my legs at all, so not sure, but think it was straight OTB.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
32,311
48,876
1,063
Telebolt. Couldn't get my head around them, so bought a pair!
 

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
5,912
4,381
563
54
vic
  • Like
Reactions: telecrag

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
32,311
48,876
1,063
I didnt think I would like it, and centre mount looks so so wrong. But I find them a pretty good quiver killer. They do everything well. Better than my old Morphics on hardpack, and they love fresh too.

170 is too short for me though.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
32,311
48,876
1,063
I do find I can play with riding the tails more. Neither hooky or smeary, its totally weird. Also they dont mind running straight at speed, which seemed unlikely with the massive (for me) sidecut. Apparently its a progressive sidecut, giving a radius from 14-18 metres, how I dont know.

I was very pleasantly surprised, my favourite ski so far. I do like a softer ski than many.
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Learn how membership works on these forums
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass