Question Tell me how skis work

telecrag

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I pretty much just ski, and make whatever is on the other end work as best I can. I do feel the difference from every pair of skis I have ever skied, but don’t really know what’s what.

At the moment I have two pairs to use mostly. Light and stiff, and the definite choice for touring, and heavy stiff and damp(tight anus or something). Which pair would be the go on what playing surface, and why? Also interested in other skis, soft, medium, whatever.

What skis are best for what conditions, and why?

I notice what skis people are on on different days, as I’m fortunate to ski with some real skiers, but how much is personal preference, and how much for specific conditions?
 
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telecrag

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Haha, I don’t care that much, a basic this type does this good for me, that ^ looks like a quagmire!
 

Billy_Buttons

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I pretty much just ski, and make whatever is on the other end work as best I can. I do feel the difference from every pair of skis I have ever skied, but don’t really know what’s what.

At the moment I have two pairs to use mostly. Light and stiff, and the definite choice for touring, and heavy stiff and damp(tight anus or something). Which pair would be the go on what playing surface, and why? Also interested in other skis, soft, medium, whatever.

What skis are best for what conditions, and why?

I notice what skis people are on on different days, as I’m fortunate to ski with some real skiers, but how much is personal preference, and how much for specific conditions?
 

crackson

Part of the Furniture
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Ski's? It's all about top sheets and colour coordination.

They all work. A bit like modern bikes.

Adapting to each ski by listening to it is key. Skis are really good instructors if you listen and adapt to what they like.
 

LaNeige

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Being a grumpy mid-aged old man with too much time on is hands and nothing more than an obsessives passing interest in skis I think I'm perfectly qualified to skool you skis. So here are a bunch of wide generalization that you should definitely take with pinch of salt:

  • Narrow - Wide
  • Better carving - Better float
  • Groomer/ice rink - Fresh, deep and hot pow

  • Light - Heavy
  • Likes consistent snow - Steam rollers everything and smooths out the ride
  • Groomer or fresh - Does not care - crud, soft chop, roughed up end of day groomer

  • More Camber - Less Camber - Reverse camber
  • More pop and energy - Less of that - More maneuverable
  • Ha I love pop on any playing surface

  • Stiffer = more stability, soft = easier to bend, less stable
There's the shape of the ski to consider:

  • Side cut (radius)
  • Short = smaller turns, longer = longer turns

  • Tip / Tail rocker
  • Earlier / deeper = easier to initiate (to a point), looses effective edge and stability gains more floatability
  • More for off-piste and pow, too much rocker and you just spin (until you get the hang of it)

  • Round tail - Square tail
  • Easier tail release - Better for carving
  • Off-piste - Groomer, think high speed knuckle dragging

There's also materials to consider
  • Metal = damp
  • Wood = pop
  • Carbon etc = light
Now combine together to find the ski you want and contact Wagner skis

But back to you, and according to my comprehensive (but based on no real knowledge) guide, your light and stiff skis will be great on consistent snow (groomers, fresh, pow) and get pushed around as conditions deteriorate - sugar piles, variable crap, crud, and won't plow through like your heavier skis. I'd think your heavier skis would get a workout whenever there was variable conditions on offer with - groomers first up, followed by some off-piste and then whatever is skiing the best - so pretty much everyday that there's not going to be a solid wind topping up the stashes, or snow or your thinking about touring or there's no one around to track out / cut up all that consistent snow. But overall, is the wrong ski choice going to ruin your day, nope.

Anyway better to get @DPS Driver or @CarveMan's thoughts on this they have both though long and deeper about this than me (thank god I'm not using the word stiffness in this sentence).
 

DPS Driver

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Jeepers.

Length, shape, dimensions, flex, side-cut, construction, weight, intended use. I could wax lyrical for hours.

Get the ones with the pretty top-sheet.

The more you know about ski design the harder your questions are to answer. Certainly now days, compared to bygone years. Add in the skier experience / ability level to really mess things up.

Before we start lets make some assumptions, we're not talking beginners or racers. Let's assume we can ski the whole mountain with varying degree of comfort.

The easiest entry into this discussion would be to start with ski shape and the two main designs, shaped and traditional designed skis. Shaped skis, known as taper or 5 point ski design, tip and tail rocker, shorter turn radius, tapered tip, less camber. (eg. DPS Wailer 112, all mountain ski). This shape is generally easier to ski, more playful and more forgiving. Can be stiffened up to provide a more technically demanding ski, ie W112RPC by drawing out the sidecut, ie longer turn radius and stiffening the longitudinal flex. But still with the ability to push them where you want them. See image below W112, note turn shape, amount of tip & tail rocker and camber.

Then look at the Pagoda Piste 94 C2 (piste centric) for a traditional design. Less rocker, longer effective edge resulting in longer turn radius which lends itself to more directional (fall line) skiing.

1628387013106.png
1628387202560.png


All / most manufacturers now make some form of both shapes with varying constructions.

So once you've figured out what general characteristics you want in your ski then you have to start looking for the more personal key ingredients which will make it the right ski for you. Intended use, type of snow and skier level is considered at this point. Do you want a ski for Australia, Japan or both, do you like cruising or maching, do you like short turns or long turns. Even though some of these characteristics will have been met by your shape decision we should still consider these factors within each design segment.

Generally, but not always a stiffer flexing (longitudinal) ski is better for a higher level skier who knows how to really bend a skis and can ski a stiff ski in all conditions. They might not want to but we do need to generalize to a degree to convey the message. Softer flexing ski is easier to turn and more forgiving. Re snow conditions narrower underfoot for firmer snow versus wider underfoot for soft snow. Wider underfoot provides a greater surface area to lift the ski and make it easier to ski in soft snow. Tip rocker likewise will lift the tip and allow a skier to surf and initiate turns more easily. Tail rocker will allow you to bust the tails out more easily and not feel as locked in to the turn.

Damp ski is better for high speed skiing usually resultant in a heavier ski with less tip deflection whereas a lively ski will provide pop and speed of turn to accommodate the more agile skier wanting to make quicker turns. Again generalisations but help deliver the message.

Firm snow versus hard snow in my opinion is more a skier level consideration, after you've taken the primary shape considerations into account. If you can ski hard icy snow with no issue, you can ski any ski anywhere. Which harks back to a previous statement above re the C94 as a piste centric ski which is what it is but it tours extremely well and is a perfect Aussie touring ski. So you can't pidgeon hole as easily nowadays as you once could. Ski designers have become much more skilled at broadening the usability of all skis.

That's probably the take away. You can ski any ski anywhere but if you really match your ski to its intended use combined with your ability level then the experience should be a richer one. I know I've had the experience when I was on a particular ski and I thought it was the best ski ever made, then I jumped on a different ski and it was lightyears better. You don't know what you don't know and most skis are good but some are better than good. All skis are certainly not made equal and there are pigs out there. But on the whole most skis today will provide a good experience provided they are correctly matched to your ability level and provided your ego will admit that. This is something you learn on a demo day, particularly if you've witnessed some folks skiing our skis and then listened to their feedback.

So be super honest, mainly to yourself with regard to ski selection and you will have a better time and improve faster if that's what you're after. I see a lot of people on skis they shouldn't be on because it's holding them back but they're the latest ski and all the pros are on them or whatever.

Hope this helps, although it's only the tip of the iceberg.
 
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Fozzie Bear

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Its an expensive journey to find out the skis you don't like. Haven't touched Volkl since trading an almost brand new pair of AC4 in on my first pair of Stockli skis (15 years ago)..... and then finding skis you like on-piste don't translate into touring skis.
 

skifree

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Being a grumpy mid-aged old man with too much time on is hands and nothing more than an obsessives passing interest in skis I think I'm perfectly qualified to skool you skis. So here are a bunch of wide generalization that you should definitely take with pinch of salt:

  • Narrow - Wide
  • Better carving - Better float
  • Groomer/ice rink - Fresh, deep and hot pow

  • Light - Heavy
  • Likes consistent snow - Steam rollers everything and smooths out the ride
  • Groomer or fresh - Does not care - crud, soft chop, roughed up end of day groomer

  • More Camber - Less Camber - Reverse camber
  • More pop and energy - Less of that - More maneuverable
  • Ha I love pop on any playing surface

  • Stiffer = more stability, soft = easier to bend, less stable
There's the shape of the ski to consider:

  • Side cut (radius)
  • Short = smaller turns, longer = longer turns

  • Tip / Tail rocker
  • Earlier / deeper = easier to initiate (to a point), looses effective edge and stability gains more floatability
  • More for off-piste and pow, too much rocker and you just spin (until you get the hang of it)

  • Round tail - Square tail
  • Easier tail release - Better for carving
  • Off-piste - Groomer, think high speed knuckle dragging

There's also materials to consider
  • Metal = damp
  • Wood = pop
  • Carbon etc = light
Now combine together to find the ski you want and contact Wagner skis

But back to you, and according to my comprehensive (but based on no real knowledge) guide, your light and stiff skis will be great on consistent snow (groomers, fresh, pow) and get pushed around as conditions deteriorate - sugar piles, variable crap, crud, and won't plow through like your heavier skis. I'd think your heavier skis would get a workout whenever there was variable conditions on offer with - groomers first up, followed by some off-piste and then whatever is skiing the best - so pretty much everyday that there's not going to be a solid wind topping up the stashes, or snow or your thinking about touring or there's no one around to track out / cut up all that consistent snow. But overall, is the wrong ski choice going to ruin your day, nope.

Anyway better to get @DPS Driver or @CarveMan's thoughts on this they have both though long and deeper about this than me (thank god I'm not using the word stiffness in this sentence).

I feel you have missed the important consideration of $/cm2 a seriously important factor in the 6 dimensional matrix that is the ski selection chart.
 

DPS Driver

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I’m a Tele, so skill level is irrelevant, as they don’t go up to god.

Awesome replies @LaNeige and @DPS Driver e actly what I was after, and explains the vibe I have got from my many skis over the years.
That's right then disregard all of the above and get the cheapest ones.

Or if your uncle died and left you a lot of money then jump on some DPS and see why lots of tele skiers ski them.
 

MarzNC

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I’m a Tele, so skill level is irrelevant, as they don’t go up to god.
My daughter switched to tele (middle school) after she was already an advanced skier with alpine bindings. What I bought for her were all-mountain skis that I liked (same body size/type) for Alpine, mid-80s width, a bit of tip and tail rocker with camber underfoot. Her tele instructor suggested one size shorter than we usually used for Alpine at big mountains. She was an intermediate for tele by the time she started using those skis.
 

DPS Driver

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Thought I might add this into the mix.

Construction has been the biggest evolution to ski design in the last decade. Obviously a topic close to my heart. The introduction of carbon fibre, flax, different core materials etc is where the big advances have been and the majority of this work has been driven by the smaller / indy brands.

The indy brands ability to design, manufacture and test almost within the same day has allowed them to make giant leaps in both construction and design which is difficult for the larger manufacturers to replicate, simply due to process. The rapid growth of new brands is testement to the markets desire to progress. This has been a win for the skiing public as its woken the larger brands from their slumber and you'll find they're becoming more nimble in their design capabilities which will have a positive overall effect on the industry.

We've covered design and shaping and now we'll talk a bit about construction:

Bases: best base is a high graphite black race base with no die cuts on the sliding surface. Race bases can go up to 60% or more in graphite content, however most production skis have between 0 & 1% graphite content. DPS runs at 22% which is the highest in the recreational market. The more graphite the less wax retention capability but better hydrophobic performance. 22% is about the tipping point where a base will retain wax and provide the best slide characteristics.

Try to steer clear of coloured bases or bases with die cut graphics if you want a fast sliding ski.

Edges: There's quite a bit in edges, ie thinner edges are faster but wear out quicker, softer edges are easier in the manufacturing process but harder edges are less prone to deformation. Thick edges are used mainly for rental as they're heavy and provide the most amount of material to endure multiple tunes. Thin edges are used for touring skis to keep the weight down.
There are several manufacturers out there making ski edges and there are cheap products and expensive products. Ideally you want durability, a standard profile and a solid level of hardness. Hardness is measured on the Rockwell scale. Rockwell 48 to 52 hardness purchased from Austria or German manufacturers are best.

Sidewall: UHMW-PE or Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. Your sidewall is a shock absorber and sealant. There are a couple of other materials used but UHMWPE is a good product. Race skis sometimes use Phenolic sidewalls which are harder and bond better to hold the package together at the speeds they travel. ABS sidewalls are another option but not as good as UHMWPE.
Sidwalls are a laid up in the process however DPS has just started making our skis with pour in UHMWPE sidewalls which is new to the industry and it proving to provide a better bond and better ride. One of those indy upgrades.

Core: Too much to go with in regard to core materials. They're super important. A good wood core a solid foundation and different woods will deliver different rides. This year we introduced vertical laminates in conjunction with standard orientation which has had a massive effect on the bio feedback in our skis. So there is plenty of magic sauce a manufacturers can use to build a quality ski.
What I would like to convey is how we look at a core. If you were to look at the profile of your ski with it sitting on its base and imagine from tip to tail is a bell curve. Dependent of where we position the bell, how wide the curve is, how thick the bell etc will determine what characteristics we want in the ski. Subtle changes in this can have considerable effect on the ride. You can probably guess the rest more in the tail delivers a stiffer tail with more rebound. Variations up front can change the turn initiation or crud busting characteristics. So the core then plays a part on the skis flex pattern.

Layup: I'm biased. Carbon fibre for me. Lively tons of rebound, torsionally stiff. Light on my feet. Lasts for ever.
Fibreglass, the standard. Does the job but starts to break down after about 40-60 days. When partnered with carbon fibre delivers a nice blend of weight, rebound and durability.
Titanal, an alloy will dampen a ski and provide confidence. They'll chop through anything if there's enough in there.
It's really a preference thing for what type of skiing you like. Fibreglass is infinitely cheaper than carbon fibre and price is always a consideration for most of us. Flax is being used to dampen a ski without as much of a weight penalty and from what I've felt is a good product. It certainly works on the Head skis I've skied it with.

I must do some work now. Maybe I'll add some more later.
 

Jestersded

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Like a motorcycle...
when you corner on a motorcycle tip it over, the suspension compresses, the engine drops down, the tyre circumference decreases and around you go. Same with skis. Tip them on the side, the bit you stand on is the engine and the tip and tail the suspension, the edge is like tyre grip.
Manufacturers play with suspension front, rear and overall to adjust how you corner (stiffness), or react when you go over something (moguls/jumps). Skiers pick their preference (eg: soft front, stiffer rear etc)
Stiffness across the width of the ski helps keep the edge on the snow when the suspension is flexed.
 

climberman

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Thought I might add this into the mix.

Construction has been the biggest evolution to ski design in the last decade. Obviously a topic close to my heart. The introduction of carbon fibre, flax, different core materials etc is where the big advances have been and the majority of this work has been driven by the smaller / indy brands.

The indy brands ability to design, manufacture and test almost within the same day has allowed them to make giant leaps in both construction and design which is difficult for the larger manufacturers to replicate, simply due to process. The rapid growth of new brands is testement to the markets desire to progress. This has been a win for the skiing public as its woken the larger brands from their slumber and you'll find they're becoming more nimble in their design capabilities which will have a positive overall effect on the industry.

We've covered design and shaping and now we'll talk a bit about construction:

Bases: best base is a high graphite black race base with no die cuts on the sliding surface. Race bases can go up to 60% or more in graphite content, however most production skis have between 0 & 1% graphite content. DPS runs at 22% which is the highest in the recreational market. The more graphite the less wax retention capability but better hydrophobic performance. 22% is about the tipping point where a base will retain wax and provide the best slide characteristics.

Try to steer clear of coloured bases or bases with die cut graphics if you want a fast sliding ski.

Edges: There's quite a bit in edges, ie thinner edges are faster but wear out quicker, softer edges are easier in the manufacturing process but harder edges are less prone to deformation. Thick edges are used mainly for rental as they're heavy and provide the most amount of material to endure multiple tunes. Thin edges are used for touring skis to keep the weight down.
There are several manufacturers out there making ski edges and there are cheap products and expensive products. Ideally you want durability, a standard profile and a solid level of hardness. Hardness is measured on the Rockwell scale. Rockwell 48 to 52 hardness purchased from Austria or German manufacturers are best.

Sidewall: UHMW-PE or Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. Your sidewall is a shock absorber and sealant. There are a couple of other materials used but UHMWPE is a good product. Race skis sometimes use Phenolic sidewalls which are harder and bond better to hold the package together at the speeds they travel. ABS sidewalls are another option but not as good as UHMWPE.
Sidwalls are a laid up in the process however DPS has just started making our skis with pour in UHMWPE sidewalls which is new to the industry and it proving to provide a better bond and better ride. One of those indy upgrades.

Core: Too much to go with in regard to core materials. They're super important. A good wood core a solid foundation and different woods will deliver different rides. This year we introduced vertical laminates in conjunction with standard orientation which has had a massive effect on the bio feedback in our skis. So there is plenty of magic sauce a manufacturers can use to build a quality ski.
What I would like to convey is how we look at a core. If you were to look at the profile of your ski with it sitting on its base and imagine from tip to tail is a bell curve. Dependent of where we position the bell, how wide the curve is, how thick the bell etc will determine what characteristics we want in the ski. Subtle changes in this can have considerable effect on the ride. You can probably guess the rest more in the tail delivers a stiffer tail with more rebound. Variations up front can change the turn initiation or crud busting characteristics. So the core then plays a part on the skis flex pattern.

Layup: I'm biased. Carbon fibre for me. Lively tons of rebound, torsionally stiff. Light on my feet. Lasts for ever.
Fibreglass, the standard. Does the job but starts to break down after about 40-60 days. When partnered with carbon fibre delivers a nice blend of weight, rebound and durability.
Titanal, an alloy will dampen a ski and provide confidence. They'll chop through anything if there's enough in there.
It's really a preference thing for what type of skiing you like. Fibreglass is infinitely cheaper than carbon fibre and price is always a consideration for most of us. Flax is being used to dampen a ski without as much of a weight penalty and from what I've felt is a good product. It certainly works on the Head skis I've skied it with.

I must do some work now. Maybe I'll add some more later.
Interesting DPS has found a way to incorporate poured edges in a commercial setting. Have seen homebuilders (mainly snowbards) do this for some years and wodered if it would ever be / is ever a commercial thing.

Can we go back to using the standard term for bio-feedback of 'chatter'? :p
 

telecrag

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I get a bit of bio feedback from my new skis! Head Core. I guess I’ll swap over to my titanal Variants on those days, until the binders disintegrate anyway!
 
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Gumbo

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Interesting DPS has found a way to incorporate poured edges in a commercial setting. Have seen homebuilders (mainly snowbards) do this for some years and wodered if it would ever be / is ever a commercial thing.

Can we go back to using the standard term for bio-feedback of 'chatter'? :p
Ride snowboards where probably the first big company to do it many years ago. A local Aussie/Japanese builder who is on here was probably the first boutique builder to remove all bubbles and perfect the process again almost 10 years ago but he has since moved away from them again. Probably the first ski company to start doing them was Divide Rides in Canada I know they were doing them in retailed skis some time back in 15/16 possibly earlier.

 

climberman

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Ride snowboards where probably the first big company to do it many years ago. A local Aussie/Japanese builder who is on here was probably the first boutique builder to remove all bubbles and perfect the process again almost 10 years ago but he has since moved away from them again. Probably the first ski company to start doing them was Divide Rides in Canada I know they were doing them in retailed skis some time back in 15/16 possibly earlier.

You still playing?
I no longer have a shed and am probably 18 months way (at best!!!!!) from having a new one.
 

climberman

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Ride snowboards where probably the first big company to do it many years ago. A local Aussie/Japanese builder who is on here was probably the first boutique builder to remove all bubbles and perfect the process again almost 10 years ago but he has since moved away from them again. Probably the first ski company to start doing them was Divide Rides in Canada I know they were doing them in retailed skis some time back in 15/16 possibly earlier.

And that must be Goz's Insta? Followed!
 

Gumbo

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You still playing?
I no longer have a shed and am probably 18 months way (at best!!!!!) from having a new one.
Yeah I decided to really give it a proper go instead of just tinkering. The last 12 months has been getting everything set up again I now have a 3000x1000 cnc and drag knife setup. The press is going single bladder instead of dual and I am redoing a sublimation press instead of switching out my ski press when I want to sublimate. Was hoping to be up and running this winter with a goal of 100 sets a year.
 

climberman

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Yeah I decided to really give it a proper go instead of just tinkering. The last 12 months has been getting everything set up again I now have a 3000x1000 cnc and drag knife setup. The press is going single bladder instead of dual and I am redoing a sublimation press instead of switching out my ski press when I want to sublimate. Was hoping to be up and running this winter with a goal of 100 sets a year.
Sick! That's awesome :)
 
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climberman

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He builds some amazing stuff. Was amazed that he had the balls to stop building for so long to step back and perfect his process. He is an amazing person to bounce ideas off.
He sure loves to play and is not afraid to try a few things and make a few mistakes.
 
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DPS Driver

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Been a bit busy and sick to contribute to this thread. But I would argue that tip geometry has been a massive revolution too, but not necessarily for skis that are designed to be skied mostly on-piste.
Yeah true that.

I felt that I sort of covered that in my first post but perhaps should have expanded on it more.
 

DPS Driver

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Interesting DPS has found a way to incorporate poured edges in a commercial setting. Have seen homebuilders (mainly snowbards) do this for some years and wodered if it would ever be / is ever a commercial thing.

Can we go back to using the standard term for bio-feedback of 'chatter'? :p
I consider bio feedback to be different to chatter.

I liken it to walking on a tiled floor versus a timber floor or having a car with softer suspension versus harder suspension. Chatter is a difficiency in the ski or the feedback you get skiing anything on ice. Bio-feedback is when the ski is doing everything you want it to do but you feel like you're feeling more of the surface. Like a car with low profile tyres and hard suspension. This is what (unbridled) carbon fibre delivers and it's what DPS have been focusing on for many years with incredible success.

Riding a 2021 DPS versus 2016 or 2011 model is a very different beast. Our Pagoda Tour is more damp than the Pure of yesteryear.
 
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CarveMan

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Yeah true that.

I felt that I sort of covered that in my first post but perhaps should have expanded on it more.
The penny dropped for me when I took a Pinnacle 105 to Utah and it dumped and I thought I’d be way undergunned as on a trip to Japan a couple of years earlier CG and I took a 105 and a 115 to Japan and we spent the whole trip fighting over the 115.

But the Pinnacle was awesome thanks to the taper and rocker.
 

climberman

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I consider bio feedback to be different to chatter.

I liken it to walking on a tiled floor versus a timber floor or having a car with softer suspension versus harder suspension. Chatter is a difficiency in the ski or the feedback you get skiing anything on ice. Bio-feedback is when the ski is doing everything you want it to do but you feel like you're feeling more of the surface. Like a car with low profile tyres and hard suspension. This is what (unbridled) carbon fibre delivers and it's what DPS have been focusing on for many years with incredible success.

Riding a 2021 DPS versus 2016 or 2011 model is a very different beast. Our Pagoda Tour is more damp than the Pure of yesteryear.
I mostly like to tease you :p
 
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DPS Driver

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The penny dropped for me when I took a Pinnacle 105 to Utah and it dumped and I thought I’d be way undergunned as on a trip to Japan a couple of years earlier CG and I took a 105 and a 115 to Japan and we spent the whole trip fighting over the 115.

But the Pinnacle was awesome thanks to the taper and rocker.
I remember moving from a pair of Elan 777 to a pair of DPS Wailer 112 Foundations on a trip to Japan in 2012. It was an epiphany.

I started skiing in Japan on 76mm underfoot Elans over 10 years previous and that season 2012 season was mind blowing. The extra underfoot was great but it could have been a narrower platform because of that combination of taper and rocker.
 
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CarveMan

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Also, I wasn't trying to make this about DPS merely using what I know best as examples.
DPS is definitely a proponent of the tip shape I like. Curiously Armada and Rossignol have moved away from it.

I did hear a story about when Rossi brought out the Soul/Sky range and Armada got all legal about the tip shape, Rossi fired back by showing they had patents that cover pretty much every ski in the industry that they choose to not enforce, put them right back in their box.
 

Telemark Phat

Pass the butter
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www.telemarkphat.org
DPS is definitely a proponent of the tip shape I like. Curiously Armada and Rossignol have moved away from it.

I did hear a story about when Rossi brought out the Soul/Sky range and Armada got all legal about the tip shape, Rossi fired back by showing they had patents that cover pretty much every ski in the industry that they choose to not enforce, put them right back in their box.
I love that Rossi have the balls to write Titanal on their skis.
 

Fozzie Bear

Where's my flapping ears gone.....
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In the woods
Core: Too much to go with in regard to core materials. They're super important. A good wood core a solid foundation and different woods will deliver different rides. This year we introduced vertical laminates in conjunction with standard orientation which has had a massive effect on the bio feedback in our skis. So there is plenty of magic sauce a manufacturers can use to build a quality ski.
What I would like to convey is how we look at a core. If you were to look at the profile of your ski with it sitting on its base and imagine from tip to tail is a bell curve. Dependent of where we position the bell, how wide the curve is, how thick the bell etc will determine what characteristics we want in the ski. Subtle changes in this can have considerable effect on the ride. You can probably guess the rest more in the tail delivers a stiffer tail with more rebound. Variations up front can change the turn initiation or crud busting characteristics. So the core then plays a part on the skis flex pattern.

Pretty sure Stockli have been using vertical laminates in some of their skis for a while.
 

hatto

One of Us
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He builds some amazing stuff. Was amazed that he had the balls to stop building for so long to step back and perfect his process. He is an amazing person to bounce ideas off.
He was telling me the other day he has built one specifically to use on that white mat stuff in summer, no pics yet though

It has been a huge journey for him but he is hanging in there
 

hatto

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He sure loves to play and is not afraid to try a few things and make a few mistakes.
I can't wait to get back and try one of his little gems.
the year he moved over there I rode one of his first proto types (170cm) which he made in the gong, for 5 weeks and is was so easy, like riding 155ish
 
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Gumbo

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Also, I wasn't trying to make this about DPS merely using what I know best as examples.
Your knowledge on skis is fantastic and a massive contribution to any thread. It would be silly if you didn’t know what your product did more than anything else. It’s also a bonus for you that your company actually do care about the product they create.

I have chopped many skis up in the past and the big thing that got me was that some of the bigger brands had sacrificed some quality control when it come to cores. A core stringer that I would never use I would quite often find when cutting into a set. I think of all the stuff that boutique companies do this is where they excel the most. You would never see a boutique company such as J skis, DPS, or others sacrifice in the name of reducing waste
 
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