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Advice needed Tent Problem..It seams like !!

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Ricardo64, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Hi Everyone,
    So I have gone out and bought myself a new (second hand tent) because I missed out on my UTOPIAN TENT (Nallo 2GT hilleberg). Reason for the extra tent is I have 3 kids and they are all keen skiers / boarders and what better way to see the alpine high country than to go out during the white season. I have one Macpac Olympus and now just picked up a Katmandu Mountain Plus with a tarp over the the two adjoining entrances I think I will have a great accomodation set up.


    The issue I have noticed is on the under side of the fly . It looks like sand from a distance but it actually is the seam glue flaking away. Has any one accounted this if so how can I repair it (other than buying my Utopian tent)


    I Plan to give the exterior of the fly a good spray with spray on NIKWAX. My immediate problem is the annoying flaking on the seams.

    Any helpful ideas would be valuable.

    thanks
     
  2. AndrewA

    AndrewA One of Us

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    Same happened to mine, but I haven't used it for years, it being 4.5kg plus, by memory. I am also lucky enough to have several "utopian tents" - inc Nallo 2 GT and Nallo 3 GT! (BTW, Nallo 3 is a more comfy option for 2 IMHO ). I'd just use it and see what happens. Alternative is to seam seal the outside of the tent. I can't see how you could remove the tape without a lot of fuss (?acetone).

    A
     
  3. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If the seam peels off easily then remove the entire seam and then invert the fly on the tent and apply seam seal to the inside seams only. If the seam tends to flake off (which I suspect will be more the case) then you will need to remove as much of the flake, if not all, for the seam seal to be effective. You could try a light scouring pad but I would not use any chemical as it may affect the rest of the fabric. You can also do as Andrew has said and seam seal the outside but it will not be as attractive. Seam seal just stops water penetration through the holes caused by the sewing needle so it should work on either side. You can still try to get rid of as much of the flaking seal with a scourer. Always do a test on a small section of tent and that section better to be down the bottom or where the fly would be closest to the ground.

    I actually prefer tents that come without tape seams for a similar reason but have not seen a tape seam do this. Could be a UV thing. If that is the case then you should also test the rest of the tent fabric for waterproof ability.
     
  4. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    I can confirm that Seamseal works just as well on either side or both.
     
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  5. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Seam sealer on the outside. I'd try washing the fly first tho, hand wash tho, warm water and mild soap not detergent, after which it may need the DWR replaced also, i just did my old tent using Nikwax Solarproof
     
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  6. Time

    Time Hard Yards

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    Use a hair dryer, and stiff bristle brush. Use twesers for anything stubborn. you really only need to remove the tape/sealant residue from over the stitched area.

    it the Sinlon.nylon is old be very careful to start as a brush can wear through a UV degraded fly.

    then use non residue masking tape (blue 3m Stuff) to tape the sides of the seam then paint on the new seam sealant between the masking tape...once set/tacky take off the masking tape.
     
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  7. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Sounds great ..I'm on a mission then, Off to bunnings for the tape and place an order on ebay :wally:
     
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  8. Time

    Time Hard Yards

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  9. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    +1 on @Time ’s advice.

    I reconditioned the seams on my 3 person 4-season Salewa after 12 years of intensive use - using mainly the Kleiber tent seam product on the right.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kleiber...bric-Seam-Repair-Tape-for-Tents-/292123356576

    Kenyon ripstop is also good (very exxy unless you can find a cheap source).

    The Gear Aid tent floor sealant is also good.

    Critical to have the old stuff cleared off first as said.

    Having used the Kleiber product I didn’t double up on seam sealer too.

    Has subsequently withstood severe weather no problems.
     
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  10. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Sealing the outside will not improve the looks of your tent but will be much easier and probably more effective, as you don't have to worry about getting every fragment of flaking sealer off. Get some McNett's Seam Grip. I had to order it from the US as none of the local outdoor shops seem to sell anything except clothing these days. Wash the tent first and apply two layers of Seam Grip.
     
  11. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    removing all the the old sealing tape seems tedious, any thoughts as to putting it in the washing machine (I have a front loader) on gentle cycle with some clothes washing detergent?

    I understand that I will have to Nikwax it again, but I was going to any way? Hoping this would remove a lot of the sealing tape, and the tape it does remove I could seal over the top of as it is not flaking !!!

    Any thoughts
     
  12. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    No washing machine, hand wash very gently.
     
  13. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Looks possibly marine / salt affected.
     
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  14. Rolo

    Rolo One of Us

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    Currently have the same issue with a Marmot Thor 2P - purchased in 2011, fairly lightly used and always stored dry and appropriately packed. Fortuitously I also have a 10 month old that's holding back the snow camping urge for now so it's not a current issue, but good to know the options discussed above...I'd settled on a likely need to abandon the aesthetics and seal the external seams, due largely to the difficulty/impossibility of removing the flakey former tape.
     
  15. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    I just had my Marmot Thor 2P replaced under their lifetime warranty (purchased 2009).

    Unpacked it for the first time ages back in April (similar story, 3 year and 1 year old). I found that the window had fallen out of the vestibule, the seams seals had disintegrated and the inside of the fly was sticky.

    Marmot had recently changed distributors in Australia and it took a while to track down someone who would respond to my request for repair/replacement:
    claimsau@newellco.com (I think that's Marmot's parent company)

    First they sent a replacement fly, but it was for the newer 2017 version and didn't fit. So I returned that and they sent a whole new tent instead (2017 Thor 3P).

    Took almost three months from first email to receiving replacement, but worth it in the end :)

    [Long time unregistered lurker, first time poster]
     
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  16. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Welcome @LastMile!
     
  17. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Some tips for @Ricardo64 or anyone else with tent seam seal issues that mirrors some of the advice above...

    I did a bit of research and trial and error with my original Marmot fly while waiting for a replacement. I found that a hair dryer on low and a tooth brush allowed me to slowly but easily brush off the flaking bits of seam tape. If I turned the hair dryer on high, the tape would actually melt into liquid and I could rub it back into the seam.

    Gear Aid (makers of Seam Grip) recommend resealing the seam on the outside of the fly with their silicon sealant mixed with a little white spirit as a thinner: https://www.gearaid.com/blogs/learn/seam-sealing-silicone-tarps-and-tents

    Marmot haven't asked for my original tent to be returned, so I might have a go at sticking the window back in with regular Seam Grip, reseal the outside seams with SilNet then treat the whole fly with a waterproofer for good measure.

    Apparently Dawn dishwashing detergent is good for washing off old waterproofing before recoating, so a trip to Costco might be in order too.
     
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  18. Rolo

    Rolo One of Us

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    Brilliant - will add that to the list of things to do this weekend! (along with the usual a) help mum get to the gym; b) keep small human happy and healthy; c) coffee...so much coffee...)
     
  19. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    So ... Just a quick Update, today I got off my rear end and attacked the so called issue.

    I got a bucket of hot water and added some sugar soap (after testing on a small section, the old seam sealant was slow coming away and soaked the fly for a couple hours, not knowing what the end result may be. :D:D:D:D:D The seam sealant totally dissolved and a beautiful clean tent fly remains ready for the new seam sealant to be applied.

    Thanks everyone for the great advice :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
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  20. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Quick question to the all seeing, all Knowing Brains trust (hail to the Brains trust). If I am going to nikwax the fly doesn't it seem futile to seam seal the fly as well ? :confused::confused:
     
  21. Arsas

    Arsas One of Us

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    Nikwax just ads a water repellent coating to the fabric, which will make the water bead and run off. Seam seal will as the name states seal the holes in the fly from the stitching and joins in fabric.
     
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  22. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Well, Just when you think you have every thing under control !!!

    I am faced with the dilemma of either using a glue based seam sealer or a tape.
    The tape seems straight forward however the tricky part is that it is a hot application where you are required to run a hot iron over the seam:)eek::eek::eek::eek:) my thoughts exactly, very little room for error my friend.

    Has any one encountered this process before and how did you go with ironing the seam sealant to your fly ?

    the other approach is the glue type method which I am more partial to, seem (was very tempted to insert a pun here) however I am unsure as to a reliable brand of sealant after all, It can't cure hard and needs to be malleable for it to work effectively.

    Any recommendations as to what you have used in the past?

    :confused::confused::confused::confused:
     
  23. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Silicon based or regular?
     
  24. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Truthfuly, I am unable to tell, can't find anything on the net
     
  25. Arsas

    Arsas One of Us

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    Use McNett SeamGrip. Been around for years. Stays flexible seals just about anything.
     
  26. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    When in doubt it’s normally not silicon-based.

    If you’ve washed it in Nikwax you wouldn’t go with a silicon sealant. If silicon then ‘Silnet silicon seam sealer from Gear Aid, available online in Au or instore from Anaconda:

    https://www.anacondastores.com/camp...-aid--sil-net-silicone-seam-sealer/BP90002434

    Otherwise a regular seam sealer will do:

    http://www.bogong.com.au/gear/gear-care/repair-kits/gear-aid-mcnett-seam-grip-28g.html

    Here’s a good range of options represented:

    http://www.bogong.com.au/gear/gear-care/repair-kits.html
     
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  27. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    Thanks Guys :cheers:
    Can't wait to get this done, with all the snow we have been having I really want to get out there and have some :snowboarder: The mountain plus is definitely a lighter tent than my macpac olympus (which I absolutely love) just a bit on the heavy side for a one man trek IMO.
    :):););):cool:
     
  28. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    ^^ This. But why not both? Tape on the inside (first) and SeamGrip on the outside.
     
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  29. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    It might SEAM like over kill with nikwax on the top of that !!
     
  30. Arsas

    Arsas One of Us

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    Overkill. Its easy to setup tent, turn fly inside out and put over tent, then paint on SeamGrip and leave to dry. Once all dry soak fly in a DWR replenisher and all done. Fly will bead water, not leak through seams and will still look good. UV has the tenancy to break down just about anything, applying the tape on the outside would IMO just asking for trouble. Also I dont like the combination of a hot iron and a flamable/meltable fly.
     
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  31. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    So, I have come across this video on the application and they suggest dilution of the silnet with white spirit (what is white spirit?)


    what are your thoughts, I am struggling to find tubes of sil net in large enough quantities, Would a large tube of silnet suffice?
    has anyone done this before?
     
  32. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    White spirit is what I use in my MSR stove (also for other cleaning and thinning duties):
    https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-1l-white-spirit_p1563471

    On the last tent I seam sealed I didn't thin the SeamGrip and it turned out fine. There was plenty left over from the small tube after doing a two person fly and floor seams. It goes a lot further than you think once you start spreading it out.
     
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  33. Ricardo64

    Ricardo64 Hard Yards

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    I use shellite in my Msr dragonfly, does the white spirt burn any better ie. hotter? cleaner?
     
  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Shellite is still the better fuel IME
     
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  35. it123

    it123 Hard Yards Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have two of those Luxe Sil tents. I didn't thin the small tubes of silicon that came with it, and I had plenty left over. I also covered all the seams.