the BC chatter thread
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I only saw the aftermath, @Telezacski and I got a nice run down the other drift, and had climbed back up for another when we found out what happened, and a plan of action was enacted.
Looking good as gold, if you weren't married those face scars would sell well on tinder
Neck mobility issues don't sound too bad? Keep up with physio and can get close to 100%?
I'd imagine the PTSD could be the worst of it
Yeh nah bootpacking on NNN boots up a chute, not surprised you found the limit
Wasn't really that traumatic, I was knocked out for the worst of it and not really there for the rest. I remember falling on the first turn when I booted out. Tried to arrest with my skis, then with the pole tip and finally with my hands out of desperation. When I only had a few m of drift left I thought no point fighting it any more, I tried to relax as much as possible. I remember sailing over that big rock below my tracks and then one of @Telezacski friends asking me if I was OK.
Getting to cooma hospital was painful before the paramedic gave me some morphine, then I fell asleep and was woken up at Cooma hospital. The MRI dye injection to jeck for cerebral haemorrhage was the worst part, one of the most painful experiences I've had.
To be fair it was the snow conditions that got you; muz said it was when you self arrested you started to cart wheel, had you slipped of the snow and then arrested you may not have flipped, may not have skis either.
NPWS have gear at Rawson Pass, so in a rescue they can make the gear available to help people stay warm.
95% of the time I'm skiing by myself so take extra caution (although I've had a number of instances where I've had to scramble not to fall; e.g. having to take skis off backpack mid way up rocky icy section and use the ski edges horizontally and do a "chin up", or use tufts of grass as handholds on north facing thin crust covered rocks)
Do you think you would have survived and been able to get yourself extricated one way or another, if you were by yourself in this situation?
These days if it's steep enough I always put crampons on, poles on the backpack and use an ice axe. Not because they're actually needed, but
- dynafit speed crampons are so easy
- using the axe as a handhold is secure and safe
- uses less energy on the climb out / can take a direct route
- virtually removes any risk of falling
Impressive all round (fall, the leap and the scars!) TP. V Good thing you missed the rock! 9/10 Neurosurgeons agree!
Fwiw: Club Lake Outlet was the last run I skied (more snow in mid Nov. 2021!) - & Nicer on SynerGs & Voile’ UVs.
That’s 1 vote against NNNBC on tough black runs then? (;-)
I do a lot of my touring alone as well. After a couple of wake up calls about 10 years ago. I've become more conservative when alone. I wouldn't have used that gear on that line if I was by myself. It would have been an interesting trip home without assistance. Before the firies showed up I had real trouble sitting up without oxygen, let alone walking. I probably would have got pretty cold by the time I could move around.People survive a lot worse, but it have been type 3 ney type 4 fun.
What do you mean booted out?
My recollection of the story and this is piecing it together, caveat, obviously @telecrag and I were having a great time on the other drift (faaark we are lucky we didn’t ski to Cootapatampa hut).
If you look at your fist picture you lost it at the top on turn one, you arrested near the bottom just above that rock and as Muz said you were a sheet of red as you past him standing at the base.
I still believe it was your stock that cut your cheek as it was damaged when I gave it back to you.
Booting out is when your boot overhang is enough on a steep slope to push the edge of your ski away from the snow. As I finished my first turn and the snow got steeper I booted out, then as I initially tried to arrest with my skis my boots continued to stop my skis from edging enough to arrest me.
Muz as in the flying Muz? I don't even remember him on that trip. Memory hey.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pole did my cheek. But it was one of 6 full depth lacerations on my head, so I definetly hit some other stuff on the way down, I had plenty of cuts and grazes elsewhere, my clothes got shredded as well.
I don't remember flipping at the bottom of the drift, it felt like the snow just fell away below me. Muz probably has a much better recollection than me though. Memories are unreliable, even worse with traumatic events and worse again when near to being knocked out / concussed.
No muz is my mate in your picture, not the flying muzz.
Sweet, I was worried I'd imagined the whole thing for a second there.
Glad you survived without any "life-changing" injuries. I did a high-speed slide that turned into high-speed cartwheels down steep ice on the side of Ruapehu in 2009. Stayed conscious somehow, though I was pretty banged up and both ankles were busted very badly, cartilage destroyed and they have caused me grief ever since. A great day out can turn nasty in a blink.
Take care out there, know first aid and get ones named to learn it too, just in case
Needs a 'when did you almost die in the backcountry' threadGlad you survived without any "life-changing" injuries. I did a high-speed slide that turned into high-speed cartwheels down steep ice on the side of Ruapehu in 2009. Stayed conscious somehow, though I was pretty banged up and both ankles were busted very badly, cartilage destroyed and they have caused me grief ever since. A great day out can turn nasty in a blink.
Take care out there, know first aid and get ones named to learn it too, just in case
Hi Your ‘story’ (article) is still available on 2 or 3 newspapers - in case you feel like reminiscing, Goski?
You were quite a celebrity for a few days - until the fickle press found some new victims…It was a tough decade after the event with lots of surgery and rehab stints. Stem cell therapy in 2017 and one ankle replacement in 2019 currently have me in better condition since the accident for walking and skiing
The flashbacks are infrequent now. I'm feeling positive about getting back to doing more skiing this year and beyond, minus painkillers and anti-inflammatories.
However, I'm still banned from playing at being a daring mountaineer by SWMBO. I'm also more risk-adverse which in balance is good for me.
@Telemark Phat
Be kind to yourself through the recovery period and seek help if you're not feeling great emotionally. That might be talking to family and friends or to a mental health professional. Or you might be fine. In hindsight I should have had a few sessions with a psychologist to mitigate the PTSD and the impact of the life change.
Yes internet content can linger for a long time.Hi Your ‘story’ (article) is still available on 2 or 3 newspapers - in case you feel like reminiscing, Goski?
You were quite a celebrity for a few days - until the fickle press found some new victims…
I had a long slide down Imagine on a typically icy Hotham day a few years ago. Skis and poles are not great at arresting an average weighted man plus gear on hardpack if the momentum has built.I Itdid remind me of my accident but I knew the runout was going to be ok. No cliff to fall over, no rocks to hit. It was more embarrassing than scary.
Does anyone use BD Whippet poles ? I'm thinking of getting one or two.
That fall was more than 5 years ago now. I think my fall and injuries were nothing compared to what you experienced.It was a tough decade after the event with lots of surgery and rehab stints. Stem cell therapy in 2017 and one ankle replacement in 2019 currently have me in better condition since the accident for walking and skiing
The flashbacks are infrequent now. I'm feeling positive about getting back to doing more skiing this year and beyond, minus painkillers and anti-inflammatories.
However, I'm still banned from playing at being a daring mountaineer by SWMBO. I'm also more risk-adverse which in balance is good for me.
@Telemark Phat
Be kind to yourself through the recovery period and seek help if you're not feeling great emotionally. That might be talking to family and friends or to a mental health professional. Or you might be fine. In hindsight I should have had a few sessions with a psychologist to mitigate the PTSD and the impact of the life change.
Still scary for you! I think it's good to remind us all of the risk of falls and slides and potentially bad results.
Risk is such a notional thing. Until personally realised, I took risks in my outdoor additives with no consequence. The fall could have been a much worse outcome for me and in grateful it wasn't. It could have been much better too but that's the randomness of life. What I think is important is to carry on and do what the body allows, within reason.
I use one. theyre great as can change from the whippet to regular. Get a cover (and a spare) for it. Just have to be mindful if you stack with one
Yeh, that's me as well. Only these days I also take a light sam-splint and a king's ransom of nurofen plus.
I learned this after a kite-assisted lofting and wind-lip smack-down out near Jagungal. I then presented myself at Cooma hospital (with what turned out to be a broken neck) and the nurses and doctors were all (rather unkindly) sniggering and calling me Macgyver 'cos I had dodged up a neckbrace out of my skins, camp map, tow-rope and gaffa tape
And another use for gaffa tape. Medical emergencies. Don't go BC without a roll.
Biggest issue - apart potentially gouging an eye or scaring a boarder or two, is that the W poles top at 140cm.
That’s fine for all downhill skiing but very limiting for taller dudes on the flat.
Case in point: My new BDs are 155, up from my old 150 model).
So for risky areas I’d usually have to take a spare pole (a whippet) - I guess it can be handy having a spare in the BC and the weight wouldn’t be more than a few hundred grams (443g). A small price for a major gain?
Carbon Whippet Ski Poles | Black Diamond Ski Gear
Built for steep terrain that demands extra traction, the Black Diamond Carbon Whippet is the ultimate ski mountaineering tool.
www.blackdiamondequipment.com
i meant a spare cover not the whippet itselfBiggest issue - apart potentially gouging an eye or scaring a boarder or two, is that the W poles top at 140cm.
That’s fine for all downhill skiing but very limiting for taller dudes on the flat.
Case in point: My new BDs are 155, up from my old 150 model).
So for risky areas I’d usually have to take a spare pole (a whippet) - I guess it can be handy having a spare in the BC and the weight wouldn’t be more than a few hundred grams (443g). A small price for a major gain?
Carbon Whippet Ski Poles | Black Diamond Ski Gear
Built for steep terrain that demands extra traction, the Black Diamond Carbon Whippet is the ultimate ski mountaineering tool.
www.blackdiamondequipment.com
I think the Whippet to sections were compatible with several BD poles so your new BDs might be compatible. Having the cover to our over the pick will reduce the risk of making an extra breathing home or becoming a pirate.Biggest issue - apart potentially gouging an eye or scaring a boarder or two, is that the W poles top at 140cm.
That’s fine for all downhill skiing but very limiting for taller dudes on the flat.
Case in point: My new BDs are 155, up from my old 150 model).
So for risky areas I’d usually have to take a spare pole (a whippet) - I guess it can be handy having a spare in the BC and the weight wouldn’t be more than a few hundred grams (443g). A small price for a major gain?
Carbon Whippet Ski Poles | Black Diamond Ski Gear
Built for steep terrain that demands extra traction, the Black Diamond Carbon Whippet is the ultimate ski mountaineering tool.
www.blackdiamondequipment.com
Ah but why not have two whippets? Be up to twice as arresting and if you use them inbounds you might get more space around you.
well i take an ice axe as well so if im skiing something i want to dual wield on i can already. depends on the terrain youre going forTalking axes. Does anyone know if these work (below) or are the pay just a gimmick?
I’m interested in updating my old shovel for a more pack-friendly model. This Alu 3 shovel with removable spike (95g all up for the head and tail fittings) seems like a good idea if one rarely needs an axe?
ORTOVOX SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE | Avalanche Shovels
ORTOVOX Avalanche Shovels SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE. In this latest iteration of an ORTOVOX classic we’ve used the most innovative materials available and cutting edge production methods to achieve the best weight-to-rigidity ratio possible. Stabilization ribs and high sidewalls give the...
www.ortovox.com
It wasn't your final resting place thank goodness but it beat lying in the snow waiting for rescue. I looked after a 12yr old on a BC trip with his uncle in 2013. My group and I was enjoying a stay at Illawong Hut. We were skiing back there when we found them mid-afternoon. Oscar was lying in the snow, his uncle was very anxious.
Oscar had landed on his head going off a little kicker they had made and he had bad neck pain. His uncle had activated an EPIRB. I had a mate go to their tent and bring back a mat and sleeping bag. We carefully excavated under him and got him into the bag while I kept his neck stable.
The chopper took a couple of hours to arrive from Canberra after refilling in Cooma and couldn't land. We were on boggy terrain. Oscar was winched away.
It was getting dark and much colder by then but we were only a half hour from the hut.
Happily we found out later he didn't have a broken neck or spine damage. Some muscle damage and strained ligaments but a full recovery was the prognosis. Note his uncle told us he'd fallen on his head on a trampoline just two weeks before. The lad needs to rotate faster!
His uncle had wisely taken out ambulance cover for them both for the trip...just in case. Something to consider, are you covered? Air ambulance rescues are otherwise very expensive, even more than buying petrol get to and BC entry points.
Whippets require perfect technique to get the best out of them.
This man is a professional rocket surgeon, do not try this at home.
LooksTalking axes. Does anyone know if these work (below) or are the pay just a gimmick?
I’m interested in updating my old shovel for a more pack-friendly model. This Alu 3 shovel with removable spike (95g all up for the head and tail fittings) seems like a good idea if one rarely needs an axe?
ORTOVOX SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE | Avalanche Shovels
ORTOVOX Avalanche Shovels SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE. In this latest iteration of an ORTOVOX classic we’ve used the most innovative materials available and cutting edge production methods to achieve the best weight-to-rigidity ratio possible. Stabilization ribs and high sidewalls give the...
www.ortovox.com
Whippet, whippet it good. Apologies to Devo.Whippets require perfect technique to get the best out of them.
This man is a professional rocket surgeon, do not try this at home.
See, you didn’t need the Sam splint anyway!
I do pretty much always take painkillers.
On a longer trip I’ll try to have stronger ones like Panadine Forte in the pack as well, if there are any old ones about.
I’ve got 2.
Practice self arresting with them like an axe, choose the most appropriate arm and ditch the other.
Like them.
Good for queue jumping to get the first chair for BC day tripping.
Great for clearing ice out of tech toes too.
I had to get choppered off Hotham, but cloud came in and so instead got ambo to Wang ICU then fixed wing to Essendon and then ambo to Alfred. Entire cost was nearly $30K. Private health covered all 3 ambo rides to Wang (via Hoth clinic and Bright hossy) at nearly $2K/ride which otherwise would have to have been paid by me. Inter-hospital transfers in Vic at least are paid for by the State.
But this is maybe another more important topic (than bacon/shrivel/anal probe) raised in the MSC thread - are you actually insured for a $30K retrieval?
Yes, I have a BD whippet ski pole. I have not had to use it in
yet in a real self arrest but in a split second you won't have time to grab an ice axe if it is still strapped to your pack.
The only terrain where I was wary of slipping a fair way down was above the Blue lake a few years ago in Spring snow or was it coming down the Eskdale spur on Mt. Bogong in August?
You too bro? Need to talk?
There is no guarantee a text message actually sends and gets received. It’s too risky relying on a text to 000 for an emergency
Taking your example the situation could give someone false confidence this text has gone through when no one has actually received it
An interesting product. Good for uphill security I think. They say it has no sharp edges. I'd rather it did have some sharpish edges to do the job. Flashing halfway down the slope contemplating your mortality and the impact of those you may soon leave behind, you might be wanting a dedicated axe. Same goes for whippets IMO. The first few seconds are vital in self-arresting vs going for the ride. Regardless, solid steep ice is unforgiving. Consolidated snow is better for an axe to slide into. Note I'm no expert on axes or not stuffing up and I'm a failed self-arrester so don't quote me!Talking axes. Does anyone know if these work (below) or are the pay just a gimmick?
I’m interested in updating my old shovel for a more pack-friendly model. This Alu 3 shovel with removable spike (95g all up for the head and tail fittings) seems like a good idea if one rarely needs an axe?
ORTOVOX SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE | Avalanche Shovels
ORTOVOX Avalanche Shovels SET PRO ALU III + POCKET SPIKE. In this latest iteration of an ORTOVOX classic we’ve used the most innovative materials available and cutting edge production methods to achieve the best weight-to-rigidity ratio possible. Stabilization ribs and high sidewalls give the...
www.ortovox.com
I get that, but with either a data connection component or a response you have more confidence. I'm not imagining a scenario where the person texting knows exactly what information is required and sends it in a single message, but more of a conversation, just like when you call.
In terms of a remote area scenario, a text message is *more* likely to go through than a call, so that once a connection to a tower is established the message goes through. For a call that connection needs to be strong enough for the call to connect, and remain connected for the duration of the conversation.
Call first.
Then ask them to text once issue established.
Voice is THE only method where you know you’ve got through.
Without the compact shovel on one half of the blade, I’d be very surprised if the Ortovox Spike comes close to a real axe.
However, for some folks who rend not to carry an axe (may not even own one) the spike / shovel combo - and the need to carry only one handle/ shaft seems like a fair compromise in moderate terrain.
- perhaps a workable solution for general MR & BHP travel but Not Feathertop, probably not Bogong (alas yet to ski), nor the big, steep Western MR faces, Sentinel, Little Austria, etc… (so much left to do, so little time!)
Not true, and not always relevant. When setting off an EPIRB you don't "know" if you have gotten through. If you are in a situation where there is data but it's unsafe to speak, you can easily see if the message has been seen at the other end (think home intruder and someone is hiding. I can use a messaging app, and it has read receipts.
Likewise in the survivalist scenario, the common furphy goes around of "change your voicemail if you have no coverage" - but if you have no coverage then you cannot make the connection to change it. At least if such a service existed there would be a *chance* that the message would get through.
Gaffa tape also turns no into mmmmm.
Grips can be changed.Biggest issue - apart potentially gouging an eye or scaring a boarder or two, is that the W poles top at 140cm.
That’s fine for all downhill skiing but very limiting for taller dudes on the flat.
Case in point: My new BDs are 155, up from my old 150 model).
So for risky areas I’d usually have to take a spare pole (a whippet) - I guess it can be handy having a spare in the BC and the weight wouldn’t be more than a few hundred grams (443g). A small price for a major gain?
Carbon Whippet Ski Poles | Black Diamond Ski Gear
Built for steep terrain that demands extra traction, the Black Diamond Carbon Whippet is the ultimate ski mountaineering tool.
www.blackdiamondequipment.com
