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Discussion in 'Alpine & Southern' started by Sandy, Sep 4, 2011.
Nice I head over next Tuesday
so far 19-24th looks amazingly good for Nagano looks like could be the season starter! IMO
*Looks like Sandy predicted pretty damn good!*
Anyone want to go out on a limb and ballpark an accumulation by new years in say somewhere like Nagano or Myoko?
if all that comes off and the bit over chrissy turns out to be the goods then 2m (to village, more up on the mountain) isnt out of the question for places like Myoko, Nozawa etc IMO. Obviously there can be plenty of variance depending on proximity to the coast, mountainous surrounding etc. But its looking really good.
Sweet, will be fun to watch unfold. I'll be interested to experience myoko myself in feb and see its famous micro climate heavy falls in person. Everyone seems to say the Myoko region in particular can get very concentrated bursts much higher than say the Hakuba Valley.
Hakuba valley is a long valley....
Otari would get similar snowfalls to Myoko i would think
Closer to sea of Japan?
Hai...and the ranges to the NW aren't as high i've been told
Yeh I could prob have stuck Cortina in there as well for 2m to base, as you head away from the coast it will generally be less and places that are in bit of a rain shadow will also get less and elevation plays a key role. But all that aside, it's tasty and everwhere will do well IMO.
freezing levels should be down to 600-850m IMO so no rain???
depends what time frame, the freeze level will fluctuate as it does depending on where the wind comes from. But with the NW I wouldnt be surprise if it snowed to sea level or close to it. IMO
Myoko gets a lot of snow. Go there in late April and look at what has not melted. More than Hakuba, more than Otari.
Hakuba observations: temps today at the bottom of the valley hit +9C. The Australian guy I quickly spoke to had the right idea: a short sleeved league shirt and no hat in Happo resort. Still looked cold at 9am though.
It was zero at 2360m around lunch time. Light winds from SW, no clouds except the odd drifting pillow. Except for Fattwins who was at work, most of the enthusiastic and regular backcountry locals were up there today, and the first goggle tans were acquired. Great day.
Some of the Myoko base below resort level
Otari (where Cortina is located) is closer to the sea of Japan, but that's not why it gets a lot of snow. It has to do with rising air and profile of the terrain the it passes over. Generally, the air must rise above around 400-600m for 20-30km for the air to cool sufficiently and for the moisture in the air to condense. Then, when it hits some high mountains (maybe above 1000m), it drops its load of snow. If some higher peaks block others, the blocked peaks don't get much snow.
For Hakuba (and most of central Japan), the two most important factors are the direction of the wind and its strength.
If the wind blows too far from the west, it rakes the coastal mountains from the side, and doesn't penetrate far enough inland to snow much. If it's more to the northeast, it is often a loop on a low pressure trough off eastern Hokkaido, the winds are too warm, and the lake effect doesnâ€™t kick in. The ideal winds are from the north to northwest.
If the wind is too light, it may pick up moisture, but then it doesn't hit the mountains and penetrate far enough from the coast to drop much snow on Hakuba which is 30-40km away.
In the Hakuba area, if the wind is from NNW, most of the snow falls on the Sea of Japan side, and both Happo & Cortina get some snow, along with some blow over snow. (see below, blue shows snow) If you are looking from the top of a sunny Iwatake/Tsugaike on a fresh NNW wind, Happo & Goryu/47 will often be cloudy, and you can see that it is snowing there, because of snow blow over.
On the other hand, if the wind is blowing directly from the north, while at Happo/Goryu/47/Iwatake/Tsugaike are still in the shadow of the higher peaks, at Cortina there are no higher peaks north, so Cortina gets most of the snow that would otherwise fall on higher peaks. (see above) This is why Cortina sometimes gets more snow (even twice as much) as Happo.
Soooo, would it be off-topic to ask how Smitty came to be wearing tennis ball green at least one season before North America and Europe, and what happened to his dark poo brown one piece?
Yes, it would be off topic
Would be interesting to compare the snowfall at the base of Cortina and the base of Myoko Akakura.
Both get ridiculous amounts of snow but wonder which one wins?
Seki onsen gets more than both but that extra few kilometres for the snow to get to Akakura brings the total down a bit..
3 years ago Cortina patrol used to take very accurate daily snow fall readings and published them for all to see online (not on their website). Unfortunately political maneuvering driven by self-interest seems to have killed this valuable process.
Is there a Sandy weather app yet?
that's not me.
I observe light snow at Nozawa Onsen at the bottom of the mountain.
Only a dusting at this stage.
GOOD MORNING mr Hakuba
good morning hakuba
Looks like Haks faired a lot better than Noz so far
westerly winds maybe?...
anyways...its a start...
should keep up until after chrissy
Otari - Cortina way obs
Snowing up at Shiga on the cams
Once that wind swings NW and that wind gets maximum exposure to the SOJ it will be on like DK
This is what we wanna see at Hakuba!!!! This is just about the first time it's looked like this so far on the valley snow cam.
Snow forecast in Fukuoka (Kuyshu) Fri/Sat
Snow forecast in Niigata city 5 out of the next 7 days.
Been snowing lightly here for about an hour, not enough to cover tracks though.
IMO there should be more snow at Hakuba & Nozawa (and most of the resorts in central Japan) as the northerly wind gets stronger through today.
Since it's looking like being a northerly, rather than a northwesterly, Nozawa & Cortina should do well, along with Kagura.
See the above cams I posted..i'm trying to work out whereabouts they are on 148.
I'm pretty sure I know the bottom two...one is just before Cortina turnoff and one is just before Otari village I think
the top two have me stuffed
Looks like Niseko lucked out with only 25 cm for the night ........................
There's a lot of cold air streaming off the Asian mainland, but you can tell the wind it not strong at the moment. Because of this, the penetration of the clould is not very far, maybe only 20km.
I'm not 100% sure, but if I was a betting man, I'd say they are all on the Omachi side not far from the lakes.
1. Just before the road starts winding and before the first lake. (looking towards Hakuba)
2. Looking back towards Omachi, just after the road starts winding.
3. The winding bit in the woods just near Sanosaka (looking towards Omachi)
4. The chain fitting bay just near the turn off to Kashimayari (looking towards Omachi). Behind the camera a couple of km up the road woudl be Yanaba.
If this is correct, it is a sequence of locations, each further from Omachi. And if so, it's a good sign because the first & second cameras are least likely to get snow.
The map for those web cams is here.
What does your arthritic knee tell you about Shiga Kogen Sandy??
Luckily I don't have an arthritic knee!!!!
Shiga Kogen is a bit further inland, so it needs more wind off the Sea of Japan for good falls of snow. But it's higher so early season snow stays there.
bahahahaha I got it completely back to front
strangely its snowing more towards Omachi than Otari
Looks like its getting heavier. Big flakes visible on those cams Donza posted
Yes, snowing harder here in Hakuba now. 2-3cm per hour towards koruchina
Neither Hakuba nor Nozawa does well on a westerly. The wind and the precipitation along with it rakes the coast and they end up with very little.
Just kicked back to NW and is coming down a lot better now
Use the new thread.