The Jindabyne thread..

climberman

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Not to hand but it's basically due to loses in the system which start at burning the gas in the power station then the transmission line losses. The figure might have been for coal at Pt Augusta. So gas at Garden Island would be better but the principle is the same. Apart from the detail that gas in the line is not losing or doing anything until called upon whereas as keeping the grid energised and balanced consumes energy just doing that. So gas for heating and cooking and hot water (the latter is very dependant on use cycles) is the go if it is piped to the home and you have a 100 years supply on tap.
Ta.
Does that apply when gas is at say about 45% and wind at 55% (as it is right now - sort of, there’s a bit of import I think from Vic which is about 80% brown coal and 20% wind)?
 

skifree

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Ta.
Does that apply when gas is at say about 45% and wind at 55% (as it is right now - sort of, there’s a bit of import I think from Vic which is about 80% brown coal and 20% wind)?

I suspect your are now digging into deeper scenarios than have been modelled.

And if you have a 100 year old gas network day to day changes in % supply really are academic.

The gas will go once the solar/wind/battery/ other stuff like tide is so cheap that it will be the way to go, but even then people on the gas network will stay until it's shut off or the gas is crazy priced. The former will only happen from law changes to ban the gas. The latter is only likely by way of tax change given it's pretty much a fixed cost to supply now until it runs out. Our life of supply has been reduced somewhat cos some dopy bugger built a pipe to the East coast.

New sub-divisions should not be provided with gas network, unsure if this is or is not happening.

But my current apartment project is in a new subdivision and there is new gas network all thru it. It is a old industrial area surrounding by suburbs so an infill exercise so there is networked gas all round. We are only using gas to run central hot water plant for the 28 apartments. The apartments cook tops are electric. Purely a construction cost saving not to reticulate gas thru the building for cook tops. Marketing would prefer gas cook tops.
 
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climberman

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I suspect your are now digger into deeper scenarios than have been modelled.

And if you have a 100 year old gas network day to day changes in % supply really are academic.

The gas will go once the solar/wind/battery/ other stuff like tide is so cheap that it will be the way to go, but even then people on the gas network will stay until it's shut off or the gas is crazy priced. The former will only happen from law changes to ban the gas. The latter is only likely by way of tax change given it's pretty much a fixed cost to supply now until it runs out. Our life of supply has been reduced somewhat cos some dopy bugger built a pipe to the East coast.

New sub-divisions should not be provided with gas network, unsure if this is or is not happening.

But my current apartment project is in a new subdivision and there is new gas network all thru it. It is a old industrial area surrounding by suburbs so an infill exercise so there is networked gas all round. We are only using gas to run central hot water plant for the 28 apartments. The apartments cook tops are electric. Purely a construction cost saving not to reticulate gas thru the building for cook tops. Marketing would prefer gas cook tops.
Ta.
Agreed on the new developments.
I’d sure someone had modelled it, energy nerds are nerds LOL
Edit - I think CBR has decided no reticulated gas for new housing developments, or is planning to.
 
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Townsend

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The Jindabyne air conditioning guys sell units that work pretty well well under zero. We have a RC AC in Thredbo as a main heater and pretty happy with it.
 
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skifree

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E3FF7A15-C39D-4442-8E33-56885B3F7F6D.jpeg
 

Telezacski

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Just to make it clear, the paths I feel have the most merit is to charge gst on holiday rentals so that holiday let’s are in line with hotels. I would also charge a dark tax, if the property is not your primary home (based on domiciled residence not just a weekender) you pay an additional property tax.
 

Ozgirl

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I live on a street with the same average annual daily traffic as the Monaro Highway. Parking out the front is illegal or non-existent. We have no garage. It’s a thing. But these are the choices we make when we choose where to live. No one makes us live somewhere. Well, not in the cohort of this thread.
Well we lived here before Vikas was taken over and owned by someone who turned it into FIT travellers instead of bus groups. The car park can’t cope with the individual cars.

and bloody cascades don’t like parking behind in their designated spots at the back of the building and prefer the street!
 
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skinavy

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Something wrong there. RC AC units work below freezing in the upper Hunter Valley. We had a RC AC at an office out of Cessnock 30 years ago that worked below freezing.

Perhaps the de-icing element or circuit is cactus?
Yep, got RC AC in Canberra and works most of the time. On very cold nights will occasionally go into defrost for 10 to 15 minutes every now and then.
 
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skichic

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How come they don't pay GST? That doesn't make any sense at all.
Considered residential rental.

But GST will just be passed onto the user anyway (price rise), with the owner then able to claim GST on expenses.
 

telecrag

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Considered residential rental.

But GST will just be passed onto the user anyway (price rise), with the owner then able to claim GST on expenses.
Also possibly the turnover falls beneath the threshold anyway.
 

telecrag

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If you own more than one, you would exceed the threshold, and should pay GST.

They really need to sort that shit out, as @Telezacski says. Residential should be.....residential.
 

skichanger

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I live on a street with the same average annual daily traffic as the Monaro Highway. Parking out the front is illegal or non-existent. We have no garage. It’s a thing. But these are the choices we make when we choose where to live. No one makes us live somewhere. Well, not in the cohort of this thread.
To go back to one of my fav topics, you have public transport. And please do not try and tell me it isn't subsidised by those of us that don't have access to public transport. ROFL

Sure we choose where we live but that is a rich perons arguement. Some people do not have the same choices as others. Some people have limited funds to spend on rent so very limited choices. And it is interesting that you assume everyone posting here is rich.
 
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skichanger

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Great excuse to ditch gas and electrify!
Funny how things change.

There was an era when we were all encouraged, maybe even subsidised, to use gas as our back up for solar hot water.

There was an era when inner city high rise were considering gas generators as a better option than new substations, especially to deal with peak consumption.
 

skichanger

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So it’s useless until we are at 24/7/365 RE?
Crikey.

SA runs about 40% gas on average over the year - this probably won’t change rapidly.

Do you have a ref for the ‘more gas to boil water in an electric kettle than via gas’ - I’d be interested to understand it :)
I would be considering:
How efficient are gas generators?
What are the transmission losses?
 

climberman

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To go back to one of my fav topics, you have public transport. And please do not try and tell me it isn't subsidised by those of us that don't have access to public transport. ROFL

Sure we choose where we live but that is a rich perons arguement. Some people do not have the same choices as others. Some people have limited funds to spend on rent so very limited choices. And it is interesting that you assume everyone posting here is rich.
Totally re the PT. It's ok where I am, and puts me in reach of good employment. But don't try to tell me regional roads aren't subsidised by those in urban areas who don't use them :) that's ok - it's called a society, and we should do this as a society.

Most folks here have been able to make decisions about where they live.

No-one in OZ thinks they are rich, do they?
 

skichic

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If you own more than one, you would exceed the threshold, and should pay GST.

They really need to sort that shit out, as @Telezacski says. Residential should be.....residential.
Except owners will just whack the 10% on top and claim GST back on expenses, which they can’t do currently. I would think owners would end up in front and holiday makers will pay more. Getting rid of negative gearing would hit them much harder.
 

telecrag

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You can deduct GST paid, off GST to be paid, if that’s what you mean.
 

telecrag

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If holiday letting was actually done as a business, then negative gearing would not apply.
 

skichanger

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If people don’t like it why live there?
Ugghh
These decisions suck.
My personal experience is as both a resident and a public servant who had to deal with whingers:
If it is like that when you move or bought there, bad luck. The one exception is stuff that we know is a health risk.
If it was changed after you moved or bought there, you need some sort of compensation, adjustment, building mods, action appropriate to the change.

I worked for State Rail in an area where we dealt with noise complaints. Amazing how many people buy property adjacent to track and then complain.
I owned a property that backed on to Macdonald Town station. The railway was there first. We expected it to be noisy at times.
I owned a property that is now under the 3rd runway flight path. We bought before that was even planned. The lies in the environmental review were amazing. And kero on your washing hung outside is not good.
 
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climberman

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I worked for State Rail in an area where we dealt with noise complaints. Amazing how many people buy property adjacent to track and then complain.
OOOOhhhhhhh I hears ya LOL, years being the frontperson in a similar role.
'We moved in last year, but the highway is really noisy. Can you do something about it?'
Errr, there's a program you can apply to. You don't meet the minimum requirements for noise levels.
'but it's really loud with the trucks at night'
*in my head* - imagine how loud it is for those who do meet the criteria....


If it was changed after you moved or bought there, you need some sort of compensation, adjustment, building mods, action appropriate to the change.
From a philosophical perspective,where does this end? Everyone can claim an impact from a change,especially in mid and major infra (or even signage). The compensation requirements would outspend the infrastructure.

I work daily in a world of property acquisition for major projects. It's very hard for many people (and often for staff who liaise with very distressed people, often for years). There are no easy answers.
 

skichic

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You can deduct GST paid, off GST to be paid, if that’s what you mean.
Yes. Right now residential holiday houses can’t get GST refunded on expenses (cleaners, real estate fees etc). If they become subject to GST they will get that refunded. So their net cash out will reduce. Then they will pass the added GST on the income to the user. It’s a win for the owner.
 

skinavy

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My personal experience is as both a resident and a public servant who had to deal with whingers:
If it is like that when you move or bought there, bad luck. The one exception is stuff that we know is a health risk.
If it was changed after you moved or bought there, you need some sort of compensation, adjustment, building mods, action appropriate to the change.

I worked for State Rail in an area where we dealt with noise complaints. Amazing how many people buy property adjacent to track and then complain.
I owned a property that backed on to Macdonald Town station. The railway was there first. We expected it to be noisy at times.
I owned a property that is now under the 3rd runway flight path. We bought before that was even planned. The lies in the environmental review were amazing. And kero on your washing hung outside is not good.
Try being duty officer at a Naval Air Station (that has been there since the 1940s) when the local real estate agent tells people who are interested in buying that we don't fly at night. They buy thinking it will be a rural bucolic existence with the occasional free airshow, only to then face night flying by a mix of helicopters and jets two nights a week and sometimes around the clock operations during exercises. Or people setup alpaca farms under the approach. Do they complain to the real estate agent, no obviously it is the bases fault...
 

skichanger

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OOOOhhhhhhh I hears ya LOL, years being the frontperson in a similar role.
'We moved in last year, but the highway is really noisy. Can you do something about it?'
Errr, there's a program you can apply to. You don't meet the minimum requirements for noise levels.
'but it's really loud with the trucks at night'
*in my head* - imagine how loud it is for those who do meet the criteria....



From a philosophical perspective,where does this end? Everyone can claim an impact from a change,especially in mid and major infra (or even signage). The compensation requirements would outspend the infrastructure.

I work daily in a world of property acquisition for major projects. It's very hard for many people (and often for staff who liaise with very distressed people, often for years). There are no easy answers.
Yep, wrt health I was thinking about lead and asbestos as being existing problems that should get cleaned up even if you moved there after the fact.
 

climberman

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My suggestion was not exhaustive. In my household there is an ongoing discussion about batteries and lithium mining wrt how the environmental considerations are compared.
IMO it's a distraction as an issue - lithium mining is physically destructive - coal and gas use has and is changing our climate. And let's not pretend coal and gas mining, processing and transport aren't also pyhsically destructive. Neither have any chance to be recycled either.

Electrify everything, decarbonise the grid :)
 

climberman

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Yep, wrt health I was thinking about lead and asbestos as being existing problems that should get cleaned up even if you moved there after the fact.
Agreed these are both areas that should see interventions - lead will be a growing nightmare for agencies IMO. Asbestos is already!
 

skichanger

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IMO it's a distraction as an issue - lithium mining is physically destructive - coal and gas use has and is changing our climate. And let's not pretend coal and gas mining, processing and transport aren't also pyhsically destructive. Neither have any chance to be recycled either.

Electrify everything, decarbonise the grid :)
We have been trying to get solar panels since February. :headbang:

I have not sat down to fully research and crunched the numbers to compare all the options. I distrust a lot of what we are told because of all the hidden agendas out there. But I am a big believer in doing the little obvious things. Insulation - one of my places in Japan it was so bad we may as well of left the doors open.

Coal, not sure where to even begin with all that is wrong with digging coal out of the ground and sending half way round the world then sending stuff made as a consequence back here.

I have a few small environmental projects I am working on. It is like beating your head against a brick wall. Just getting a reply is an accomplishment. It took council 4 months and a lot of harassment to reply to an email when their service charter says they will reply within 10 working days.
 
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skichanger

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They say there's a doctor surgery that's closed in Cooma. Staff member worked while infectious.
Yep. Posted about earlier in this thread. Ochre in Cooma. And a few people on facebook complaining about not being notified when they were there at the same time as that person.

Actually we are getting slightly conflicting stories. Were they a patient, who went their to get tested? Or a staff member? Either case is not good.

And there is some thing about a child care centre as well. Who knows what the truth actually is.
 
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skichic

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They say there's a doctor surgery that's closed in Cooma. Staff member worked while infectious.
Pretty poor. At least you would expect them to be vaccinated, masked and sanitised, so low risk?
 

warrie

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I would be considering:
How efficient are gas generators?
What are the transmission losses?
High voltage transmission line losses will be identical over any given distance whether the source generation is gas, wind, coal, hydro or nuclear. The loss is not a function of the source but only distance for a given cable thickness, metal type and temperature. 2% is the usual quoted value but obviously doubling a given length must double the energy losses ( as heat).
So over time system voltages have risen. Snowy built at 330kV. Later NSW lines are 500kV. P for power loss depends on VI or I squared R or V squared /R. R for the line is fixed so doubling V gives 1/4 power loss
Gas turbines efficiency at 45 to 60% , black coal 40%, hydro 95% plus, Wind turbines about 50% but fuel is free.
 
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Billy_Buttons

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Wait until the first weekend after the 70% double dose. It will be absolutely nuts ;) Only 4-6 weeks away.
If I was a local, I'd be getting out of there quicker than you could blink.
We are not going near the place until February at the earliest (if out of lockdown).
 
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