The Jindabyne thread..

dawooduck

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Yes, they do.
Don't forget that English Perisher ski instructor that instructed kids of parents on this forum that raped a woman in Jindabyne and knocked her friend out cold a few years ago.
I don't think he flew his drugs out with himself into Sydney airport?

So, some of you think it is totally acceptable that some people will get raped and some people will die from overdose because of a little bit of drug consumption.

Meanwhile in America the war against guns is not justified with many daily deaths.

What utter bullshit is this.

The sniffer dog shizzle, its a big show for sfa, a flex of tattooed up fascist cops profiling kids, part of the LWE circus.
 
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LMB

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So, some of you think it is totally acceptable that some people will get raped and some people will die from overdose because of a little bit of drug consumption.

Meanwhile in America the war against guns is not justified with many daily deaths.

Okay, I'm effing outta here....:eek:
A Rapist is a rapist with or without drugs, believing drugs is what drove them to it might help you sleep at night believing everyone is intrinsically good and respectful, but it’s just not the case. Plenty of people who have taken a whole lot of drugs that don’t rape.

The problems exist with society and prohibition providing a business opportunity for - whatever you want to call them - gangsters, drug lords, opportunists.

If we make recreational weed legal and regulated, sold in dispensaries the vast majority of those looking for a high to help them with the boring cage they find themselves in Will stick to weed. Because it’s legal, it’s regulated, it’s easy to obtain, it does the job with no risk. So many are then removed from the meth, heroin and coke market because the risk is no longer similar in purchasing and using.

But our first focus should be on fixing the cage people are in. Provide opportunity, support and stimulation and the desire for drug abuse diminishes (that includes alcohol).
 

Principal Douglas

Lapsed Perisher Skier
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Nancy Reagan isn't dead. She just went and hid and started posting on ski.com.au

campaign_just-say-no-20160307114533759-20160307085622336.jpg
 

nezumi

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Because they can lead to information on the big fucktards that are peddling drugs on a grand scale.

Drug detector dogs in airports and other points of entry may find dealers/trafficable quantities - but at Jindy it's more likely to be individual users, which is generally not going to have the outcome of preventing the flow.

A Rapist is a rapist with or without drugs, believing drugs is what drove them to it might help you sleep at night believing everyone is intrinsically good and respectful, but it’s just not the case. Plenty of people who have taken a whole lot of drugs that don’t rape.

The problems exist with society and prohibition providing a business opportunity for - whatever you want to call them - gangsters, drug lords, opportunists.

If we make recreational weed legal and regulated, sold in dispensaries the vast majority of those looking for a high to help them with the boring cage they find themselves in Will stick to weed. Because it’s legal, it’s regulated, it’s easy to obtain, it does the job with no risk. So many are then removed from the meth, heroin and coke market because the risk is no longer similar in purchasing and using.

But our first focus should be on fixing the cage people are in. Provide opportunity, support and stimulation and the desire for drug abuse diminishes (that includes alcohol).

We need to look at Portugal's approach to recreational drug use - decriminalisation for individual users & appropriate health treatment and pathways to recovery or use reduction.

It looks like this is going to be implemented in the ACT soon, which is pretty cool.
 
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Chookfooter

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Is that the one that was doing doughnuts in the candy car up the back of the almost-deserted Perisher carpark the Tuesday after QBW 2018?
I doubt it would have been him, when this bloke puts his uniform on he is a stickler for the rules so I can see him doing that. Doesn't worry him too much when he gets on his bike though, speed limits aren't so important then. (He couldn't keep up with me though)
 

Schnitzelnschnapps

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Totally required 4 cars, 8 cops, a dog and a blocked street for half an hour.

Somehow, their spidey senses detected that I thought they were a roving pack of fn idiots and the dog agreed with me.
The return on investment on an exercise like this in a place like Jindy is minimal, compared to parking outside a rave at 8am on a Sunday morning and "randomly" drug testing every single car that leaves the car park. But hey, if it scares a few young 'uns into not driving to and from the snow under the influence of ice, it's a good thing. I probably don't want them crashing into me on the side of the mountain either. So I think it's more about the publicly exercise aka scare factor.
 

dawooduck

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A Rapist is a rapist with or without drugs, believing drugs is what drove them to it might help you sleep at night believing everyone is intrinsically good and respectful, but it’s just not the case. Plenty of people who have taken a whole lot of drugs that don’t rape.

The problems exist with society and prohibition providing a business opportunity for - whatever you want to call them - gangsters, drug lords, opportunists.

If we make recreational weed legal and regulated, sold in dispensaries the vast majority of those looking for a high to help them with the boring cage they find themselves in Will stick to weed. Because it’s legal, it’s regulated, it’s easy to obtain, it does the job with no risk. So many are then removed from the meth, heroin and coke market because the risk is no longer similar in purchasing and using.

But our first focus should be on fixing the cage people are in. Provide opportunity, support and stimulation and the desire for drug abuse diminishes (that includes alcohol).

The amount of prescription drugs used in Australia to soften the cage is .... mind boggling as are the flow on addiction problems.
 

Jacko4650

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Sydney drug squad arrived with sniffer dogs a couple of days ago.

Ripping people out of their cars and putting sniffer dogs through them on random traffic stops while being disgusting little ****s.
There were a couple of young blokes bonging on in their car next to mine in the Peri Car Park yesty. I thought I cold get pinged if "randomly" tested on account of passive smoking; it was strong!!!
A little later I caught up to them driving down the hill - doing 60 in the 80 zone. Trying to remain inconspicuous no doubt!
 

Donza

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Problem with Cooma is almost no one wants to fly to Cooma. Can't make Hotham work and that is only 20 minutes from airport to skiing.
Well that and a statewide lockdown through the ski season.


However construction on Jindabyne international airport has started!
 
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dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
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There were a couple of young blokes bonging on in their car next to mine in the Peri Car Park yesty. I thought I cold get pinged if "randomly" tested on account of passive smoking; it was strong!!!
A little later I caught up to them driving down the hill - doing 60 in the 80 zone. Trying to remain inconspicuous no doubt!

If they had two legal schooners it would have been 95
 

Me+3

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A Rapist is a rapist with or without drugs, believing drugs is what drove them to it might help you sleep at night believing everyone is intrinsically good and respectful, but it’s just not the case. Plenty of people who have taken a whole lot of drugs that don’t rape.

The problems exist with society and prohibition providing a business opportunity for - whatever you want to call them - gangsters, drug lords, opportunists.

If we make recreational weed legal and regulated, sold in dispensaries the vast majority of those looking for a high to help them with the boring cage they find themselves in Will stick to weed. Because it’s legal, it’s regulated, it’s easy to obtain, it does the job with no risk. So many are then removed from the meth, heroin and coke market because the risk is no longer similar in purchasing and using.

But our first focus should be on fixing the cage people are in. Provide opportunity, support and stimulation and the desire for drug abuse diminishes (that includes alcohol).
You can't really use of the words 'no risk' in a discussion about any form of drugs.
Regulating it doesn't take away the risk of the consumer getting hooked and being dependant on it.

I have a close mate who's bother ruined his life, including permanent brain damage from consistent cannabis use (which did lead to some intermittent use of other drugs as well.. cocaine, ice etc)
He no longer smokes or does any form of drugs, alcohol etc.
and has actually devoted the rest of his life to faith and helping those who are going through similar situations in life so they don't make the same mistake.

Don't think for 1 second that weed it's a 'good' or 'acceptable' drug'.
It ain't.
 

Telemark Phat

Pass the butter
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You can't really use of the words 'no risk' in a discussion about any form of drugs.
Regulating it doesn't take away the risk of the consumer getting hooked and being dependant on it.

I have a close mate who's bother ruined his life, including permanent brain damage from consistent cannabis use (which did lead to some intermittent use of other drugs as well.. cocaine, ice etc)
He no longer smokes or does any form of drugs, alcohol etc.
and has actually devoted the rest of his life to faith and helping those who are going through similar situations in life so they don't make the same mistake.

Don't think for 1 second that weed it's a 'good' or 'acceptable' drug'.
It ain't.
Tragic outcome for your friend, but how did the prohibition of cannabis help your friend or stop your friend consuming cannabis?
 

Me+3

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Tragic outcome for your friend, but how did the prohibition of cannabis help your friend or stop your friend consuming cannabis?
It didnt.
He stopped due to medical diagnosis / brain damage / mental state.
For lack of a better term, he was f'd up and fully dependant on it for daily life.
All stemmed from the addiction.
Whether or not it's legal or not, people will still abuse.
Some comments suggesting that regulating it just because.. don't sit well with me that's all.

Age old debate...
should government tip $ into preventing addiction abuse OR tip $ into legalising and regulating it to minimise the # of people who end up addicts ?
 
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LMB

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It didnt.
He stopped due to medical diagnosis / brain damage / mental state.
For lack of a better term, he was f'd up and fully dependant on it for daily life.
All stemmed from the addiction.
Whether or not it's legal or not, people will still abuse.
Some comments suggesting that regulating it just because.. don't sit well with me that's all.

Age old debate...
should government tip $ into preventing addiction abuse OR tip $ into legalising and regulating it to minimise the # of people who end up addicts ?
Legalising and regulating and TAXING it frees up cash for medical programmes, support programmes and improving the environments of those who would be harmed. It also reduces the number of people who turn incidentally to other more dangerous and unregulated drugs because the easy one yo get is weed. By no risk I mean no risk of prosecution. Life brings with it risk.

I’m sorry to hear about your friend.
 

Legs Akimbo

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Age old debate...
should government tip $ into preventing addiction abuse OR tip $ into legalising and regulating it to minimise the # of people who end up addicts ?
I think you are misrepresenting the debate. The current plan is devoted to spending money to ensure that addicts cannot or do not seek treatment for fear of punishment. That money could be spent giving treatment in a regulated scheme of legal drugs.
 

Snow Blowey

Old n' Crusty
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It didnt.
He stopped due to medical diagnosis / brain damage / mental state.
For lack of a better term, he was f'd up and fully dependant on it for daily life.
All stemmed from the addiction.
Whether or not it's legal or not, people will still abuse.
Some comments suggesting that regulating it just because.. don't sit well with me that's all.

Age old debate...
should government tip $ into preventing addiction abuse OR tip $ into legalising and regulating it to minimise the # of people who end up addicts ?
Decriminalisation does not equal legalisation.

ACT has decriminalised, not legalised. The rest of us should be doing the same.
 

Telemark Phat

Pass the butter
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It didnt.
He stopped due to medical diagnosis / brain damage / mental state.
For lack of a better term, he was f'd up and fully dependant on it for daily life.
All stemmed from the addiction.
Whether or not it's legal or not, people will still abuse.
Some comments suggesting that regulating it just because.. don't sit well with me that's all.

Age old debate...
should government tip $ into preventing addiction abuse OR tip $ into legalising and regulating it to minimise the # of people who end up addicts ?
Why not both? Criminilisation achieves neither outcome.

If prohibition did nothing for your friend why do you support it?
 

Me+3

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Why not both? Criminilisation achieves neither outcome.

If prohibition did nothing for your friend why do you support it?
he was extremely lucky (if that's the right term to use) to have unwavering support from family/friends.
many others who have addiction do to have that.... or the addiction drives the wedge of separation.

Just my opinion, but other than use for specific medicinal purposes, I see no place in the world for drugs.
What good comes from using them?
 

Legs Akimbo

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he was extremely lucky (if that's the right term to use) to have unwavering support from family/friends.
many others who have addiction do to have that.... or the addiction drives the wedge of separation.

Just my opinion, but other than use for specific medicinal purposes, I see no place in the world for drugs.
What good comes from using them?
We'll start with pain free surgery. Before anaesthesia a good surgeon was a fast surgeon in the hope that he (they were all blokes) would finish the job before the patient died of shock,
 

Me+3

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Alcohol does more damage, and causes more death and illness, than the all the other drugs combined, which does kind of prove the argument perhaps.
I'll take your word for it.
I have no doubt alcohol is a major player.
 

telecrag

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My point I guess is that legalising something does not change the harm factor for people who abuse, aggressive marketing to the point where it is almost culturally unacceptable to not imbibe is also something to ponder.

However so too is what happens when you try prohibition, we love our drugs, it’s historical.

The hypocrisy is a problem for me.
 

LMB

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I'll take your word for it.
I have no doubt alcohol is a major player.
The difference being that because it is a legal substance if you have a problem with the abuse of alcohol you can seek help without risk of prosecution. For an illegal drug user if they are abusing the drug, they’re usually hiding it and not talking about it, or seeking freely available help.

Tax it.
Regulate it.
Provide help for those that abuse substances.

Treatment programmes are rarely focussed on abstinence as the core of staying clean, they’re focused on finding a new path, a new passion, some other good habitual behaviour to replace the destructive one, and working on positive self image.
 

Me+3

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The difference being that because it is a legal substance if you have a problem with the abuse of alcohol you can seek help without risk of prosecution. For an illegal drug user if they are abusing the drug, they’re usually hiding it and not talking about it, or seeking freely available help.

Tax it.
Regulate it.
Provide help for those that abuse substances.

Treatment programmes are rarely focussed on abstinence as the core of staying clean, they’re focused on finding a new path, a new passion, some other good habitual behaviour to replace the destructive one, and working on positive self image.
So illicit drugs should go the same way that alcohol has gone in terms of actually making it available...
but make it expensive (via taxing)
but somehow try to regulate it ? (whatever regulating it means...)
but have a plan to help those who abuse it ?
That will not end well ?

Your almost setting it up to fail are you not ?

Why is not having the drugs available to abuse in the first place not a better position ?

*** sorry in advance for my ongoing intrigue/questions/comments
I'm genuinely interested in this topic as there is some varying opinions.
 

KylePee

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Why is not having the drugs available to abuse in the first place not a better position ?
It's a bit head in sand TBH. They're widely available, and absolutely no control over what is in them, from dosage of the actual desired drug, to what else is mixed in with it.
So then, what could be the benefit in some controls and taxes being added do you think?
 
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nezumi

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So illicit drugs should go the same way that alcohol has gone in terms of actually making it available...
but make it expensive (via taxing)
but somehow try to regulate it ? (whatever regulating it means...)
but have a plan to help those who abuse it ?
That will not end well ?

Your almost setting it up to fail are you not ?

Why is not having the drugs available to abuse in the first place not a better position ?

*** sorry in advance for my ongoing intrigue/questions/comments
I'm genuinely interested in this topic as there is some varying opinions.

There are two schools of thought here. The first is decriminalisation, where you make the possession of non-trafficable quantities (i.e. personal use amounts) legal, but still continue to prosecute dealers and producers/manufacturers. This removes the stigma around usage and increases the prospects for rehabilitation and harm reduction. We have seen this in things like safe injecting rooms, where the risks associated with usage are minimised (clean needles, rapid response available for overdoses, etc).

Regulation and taxation, however, means that manufacturing would be legal and licensed. This has some benefits (you would have a known concentration for each drug, rather than just whatever the maker/dealer gives) and tax revenue could be put to good uses. This, just like the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, is what's referred to as a "vice tax" - you set it quite high to discourage the use (or excessive use) of something, but still make it legal.

I am more for the former scenario, as it recognises that these drugs are more often than not used as a form of self medicating against some other (often emotional/mental) trauma or pain. Where the substances are genuinely ones of addiction (as in, there is a physiological response to the removal of the substance) then having safe usage spaces allows people to seek help in a safe manner.

Any attempts to completely remove illicit substances is going to be difficult at best, so approaching it from a harm reduction perspective has been shown to be more effective as a whole.
 

LMB

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There are two schools of thought here. The first is decriminalisation, where you make the possession of non-trafficable quantities (i.e. personal use amounts) legal, but still continue to prosecute dealers and producers/manufacturers. This removes the stigma around usage and increases the prospects for rehabilitation and harm reduction. We have seen this in things like safe injecting rooms, where the risks associated with usage are minimised (clean needles, rapid response available for overdoses, etc).

Regulation and taxation, however, means that manufacturing would be legal and licensed. This has some benefits (you would have a known concentration for each drug, rather than just whatever the maker/dealer gives) and tax revenue could be put to good uses. This, just like the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, is what's referred to as a "vice tax" - you set it quite high to discourage the use (or excessive use) of something, but still make it legal.

I am more for the former scenario, as it recognises that these drugs are more often than not used as a form of self medicating against some other (often emotional/mental) trauma or pain. Where the substances are genuinely ones of addiction (as in, there is a physiological response to the removal of the substance) then having safe usage spaces allows people to seek help in a safe manner.

Any attempts to completely remove illicit substances is going to be difficult at best, so approaching it from a harm reduction perspective has been shown to be more effective as a whole.
^this.

It’s about harm reduction.

Let’s take the example of a group of teenaged girls heading into a music festival with a few pills in their pockets - they don’t know the exact contents of those pills because some person who has zero interest in their safety has cooked them up in his garage. They’re already taking a risk in taking them. Now, they have a few for friends who are inside already… and just as they get near the entrance who do they spy but the sniffer dogs. What do these girls do? History tells us that many of them pop the pills (all of them) immediately so they aren’t caught with them. Further endangering themselves. Because being caught with drugs is scarier to them than considering the consequences of taking those drugs. Disaster.

If they instead have counselling facilities, first aid facilities, testing facilities and bins to relinquish the drugs without questions lives will be saved.

Prohibition of alcohol meant dodgy booze with no consistency of alcohol content, and gangs running the production and distribution. Same goes for drugs.

Stop penalising the individual, go after the big distribution rings.
 

scottski

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^this.

It’s about harm reduction.

Let’s take the example of a group of teenaged girls heading into a music festival with a few pills in their pockets - they don’t know the exact contents of those pills because some person who has zero interest in their safety has cooked them up in his garage. They’re already taking a risk in taking them. Now, they have a few for friends who are inside already… and just as they get near the entrance who do they spy but the sniffer dogs. What do these girls do? History tells us that many of them pop the pills (all of them) immediately so they aren’t caught with them. Further endangering themselves. Because being caught with drugs is scarier to them than considering the consequences of taking those drugs. Disaster.

If they instead have counselling facilities, first aid facilities, testing facilities and bins to relinquish the drugs without questions lives will be saved.

Prohibition of alcohol meant dodgy booze with no consistency of alcohol content, and gangs running the production and distribution. Same goes for drugs.

Stop penalising the individual, go after the big distribution rings.
Sad analogy, the January after my youngest daughter left school, she and a bunch of friends went to the concert in Hyde Park. Sydney.
One of the girls, probably the most conservative of the lot took a pill from a guy known to the group. Fifteen minutes later she collapsed writhing on the ground in spasms. Ambulance dragged her out and up to St Vincent’s. She died that night.
Just a complete tragedy. The boy got charged with numerous offences.
Shoot the fing dealers. Cascade the penalty the higher up it goes. Lock up the king pins for life and throw away the key.
 

LMB

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Sad analogy, the January after my youngest daughter left school, she and a bunch of friends went to the concert in Hyde Park. Sydney.
One of the girls, probably the most conservative of the lot took a pill from a guy known to the group. Fifteen minutes later she collapsed writhing on the ground in spasms. Ambulance dragged her out and up to St Vincent’s. She died that night.
Just a complete tragedy. The boy got charged with numerous offences.
Shoot the fing dealers. Cascade the penalty the higher up it goes. Lock up the king pins for life and throw away the key.
Agreed.
Tragic.

But back onto Jindy now.

If we want to continue the “war on drugs” debate probs should do it in its own thread.
 

climberman

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Sad analogy, the January after my youngest daughter left school, she and a bunch of friends went to the concert in Hyde Park. Sydney.
One of the girls, probably the most conservative of the lot took a pill from a guy known to the group. Fifteen minutes later she collapsed writhing on the ground in spasms. Ambulance dragged her out and up to St Vincent’s. She died that night.
Just a complete tragedy. The boy got charged with numerous offences.
Shoot the fing dealers. Cascade the penalty the higher up it goes. Lock up the king pins for life and throw away the key.
That’s fcukt.
 

Telezacski

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Out of interest did anything ever come of the English ski instructor in terms of reviewing the employment process? I know he was jailed but I recall at the time many people suggested their were hints he had issues that had been covered up .
 
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Nidecker

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Out of interest did anything ever come of the English ski instructor in terms of reviewing the employment process? I know he was jailed but I recall at the time many people suggested their were hints he had issues that had been covered up - think time bomb analogy.

re: "hints he had issues" I think many people suggested that without much foundation.

What he did was in my eyes extraordinarily out of character, and I suspect/know extremely drug related. I knew him very well, dinners at my house / coached my daughter a couple of years etc, so my comments are based on my personal experience with him, not second hand via a childs eyes.

The reality possibly is, that when he was first employed several years prior, there may not have been a problem, but in the ensuing years, a drug problem manifested itself.

I'm not sure how you catch what was probably a spiral out of control as opposed to, he came to Perisher with significant existing problems.

Probably would never have picked it up as part of the initial onboarding process, but may have exposed it as part of ongoing drug testing of staff. I don't personally have an issue with drug testing of staff, but some people do.

PWSC was pretty much cleaned out from the top down following that incident, and doubt that the current senior leadership will have a similar problem. But hey you never know.
 
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