Question The lightweight gear question

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Chaeron, May 5, 2018.

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What is the weight of your overnight snow camping pack?

Poll closed Saturday at 9:53 PM.
  1. 20kg

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  2. 18kg

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  3. 16kg

    8 vote(s)
    32.0%
  4. 14kg

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
  5. 12kg

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  6. Other

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  1. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    What is your lowest overnight expedition backpack weight on the snow and how do you get there - besides gear on your feet / bindings/ skis / splitties, what about tent/ food/ other gear?

    Or are you so fit and strong you normally carry up the kitchen sink and the caravan?
     
  2. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Some of the more obvious arguments:

    http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=58 - AU bushwalking lightweight gear discussion


    https://www.thehikinglife.com/going-light/

    https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/ski-weight.79393/

    https://backcountrymagazine.com/stories/lances-lab-pound-saved-lap-earned/
    The phrase “a pound off your feet is like five off your back” first appeared in the 1969 work of Soule and Goldman.

    Carrying weight obviously requires energy, and carrying it on your feet increases that energy by 0.8 percent per 100 grams2.

    So adding 10 pounds to your feet increases energy cost by 36 percent every…single…step….

    https://www.backcountry.com/explore/how-to-lighten-your-touring-set-up:

    “one extra ounce per boot adds 250 pounds of dead weight per mile.”

    An extra 20 g on your feet adds 110kg of dead weight you’re lifting per km.

    Haute route (huts) equipment list:

    http://www.cosleyhouston.com/haute-route-eq-list.htm
     
  3. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    I have been up every route there is on Mt. Bogong carrying a ridonkulously heavy overnight pack. I am not financially equipped to go and buy all Ultra light gear but I must say that white season overnight trips seem to increase my pack weight. White season seems to require more stuff to keep warm camping in the snow as well as a carrying a snow shovel etc.
     
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  4. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    I have a freeze dried kitchen sink which simply reconstitutes with water. The Small family sedan that I usually strap to my back is full of food. I eat like a horse and burn it off .
     
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  5. GS

    GS A Local
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    I selected 16kg before scrolling down. in my case that doesn't include skis, stocks, boots etc
     
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  6. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Thx - I have modified the original post so it clearly polls on backpack weight, although clearly people's binding, boot & plank options remain of critical interest.
     
  7. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel Hard Yards

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    Pack - about 14kg.

    Ski setups - trying two different approaches this winter. Skimo rig around 5kg, and downhill-oriented at almost 8kg. Will see which was my favorite by the end of the season.
     
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  8. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Taking a similar bi-polar approach- lighter touring rig based on lighter bindings & patterned bases and a more solid rig mainlyfor steeps.
     
  9. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    I carried my snow shoes, lunch, water, rented BC XC skis , poles ,emergency gear all the way up DHG to Top Station in October 2017 ,last year and made it to the Cootapatamba Lookout . That was a slog in hired NNNBC boots.
    I returned via the Snow Gum chairlift and walked all the way back to DHG to pick up my car from Thredbo.
    I was wrecked by the end of it and hardly skied at all because it was so soft up there.
     
  10. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    The aim is not suffering.
     
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  11. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    NNNBC bindings and matching boots which coupled with pattern base BC skis are lightweight and useful for BC day touring. The Manual NNNBC bindings have more surface contact with the boot than the automatic bindings do but not have as much as the duck bill boots do. Some people prefer that greater boot surface to ski contact for downhill turns.As long as your boots have extra ankle support they should be adequate for turns on a day tour in the back country even if it is icy out there.
    My old Friend in Thredbo is a keen and experienced skier.She has proper Alpine Touring gear and she says it is necessary but it is expensive and heavy in actual weight. She uses full length skins for ascents.
     
  12. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    Is that 2 or 3 days experience?
     
  13. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    She has been skiing for 30 plus years in Australia, NZ,.Kashmir and in Europe. I am no expert but I am enthusiastic. Talk to her, the Mangeress at the Silver Brumby Chalet in Thredbo if you want to get her views on Alpine Touring Gear. She and her fella Monsieur Nicholas , they ski the demon BC runs.
     
    #13 Mister Tee on snow shoes, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  14. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
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    Yeah I voted 14kegs not including ski gear but I think 13 is about it usually. And depending whether it's my wife accompanying me LOL
    Probably not going to happen for a while again though.

    Improvement could be made in a lighter/smaller tent (not interested in a tarp) but I'm happy with mine as the space afforded is epic with a dug out vestibule. Splitting the carriage makes it fine. I think it's 3.6kg?

    Also, could shave down to a lighter bag/doona thing with my down jacket I may look at that next upgrade? Current bag is warm af. -18 LOL

    I'm happy with the cooking/incidentals I carry as an enjoyable night is part of my experience. I like to target a stream camp to save melting water; less gas.

    A lighter pack is certainly on the radar for me, currently have an old canvas karrimor which is excellent and large but quite heavy. However the extension nylon part has deteriorated a bit. Maybe just a crag pack in the future, currently just my rack storage...

    That leaves clothing which comes and goes but probably more importantly, skis, bindings and boots... Not sure where I'm at with a new ski rig needed (that perfect Ozbc ski, obv - where's that thread LOL) sometime, not this year though.
     
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  15. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    When we started on the lightweight gear track, we found it increased the space available in our packs, which we filled with beer, which made them heavier with the lightweight gear, than they were before!

    Now on the rare trip, I might carry a hip flask at most, maybe one can.....I would guess the pack weight at around 15kg, I always carry the camera, otherwise it would be a few kilos less.
     
  16. Pink

    Pink Hard Yards

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    Single malt over beer every time. What was the question again?
     
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  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    Ready to go. Have I forgotten something?
     
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  18. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room
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    What’s the debate?
     
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  19. Kletterer

    Kletterer Still looking for doughnuts
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    Goonsack always goes in the top pocket.
     
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  20. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    #20 Chaeron, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  21. bluestick

    bluestick Addicted
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    For 2 days 1 night 11 - 12 kilos plus 250 grams of scotch increase by 800 g each extra day for food.
     
  22. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    That could be me but I don't watch TV and I don't have a dog.
     
  23. weerab

    weerab One of Us
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    Speaking of lightweight, the Lightweight camping shop is relocating around the corner into the old Mountain Designs shop in Little Bourke in Melbourne. Apparently mid May. Can't say I've ever been in their shop.

    The One Planet shop also in Little Bourke Street always looks empty, you wonder how they survive!
     
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  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    Carrying a stupidly heavy pack and trying to ski is even more dangerous than walking with one in the summer. Even walking with snow shoes will become a problem if the snow is fresh or powder. What sort of skis (or snow shoes) would you need to support 130kg? I remember carrying 25kg on snow shoes and it was not fun even though I was really fit then. That was also carrying a lot of professional camera gear, crampons and food for 6 days. We doubled up on a couple of things which in hindsight was not necessary and have cut back on a lot of other things now. No more Tia Maria snow cones but still have to take the scotch. Sorting out what is really necessary or what you can do without is difficult if you have been used to carrying it for a long time. I still think we can do better. My partner just bought a smaller and lighter pack which means she is forced to rationalise what she takes. She has knocked an easy 5kg off what she used to carry a year ago for a 3 day summer trip. I still love my Mont Backcountry but it is not a light pack. These days it is never chockers full so perhaps I should change as well.
     
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  25. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Yeah, I have the Backcountry, its really comfy, but pretty heavy. But I hardly ever O/N anymore. We used to quite often carry in very heavy loads for half a day, and setup a base for days trips. Some of those packs, I probably couldn't even lift anymore. It was almost a competition, with a daypack on front sometimes.
     
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  26. Ubiquitous Steve

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    Just get a cheap tobogan for winter and tow it along .....that gets a lot of weight off your back!
    When camped for a few days in Pretty Valley I used to gave a mini mart set up in 200litre plastic drum.....stash gear and cans,fuel etc etc in bush...

    U can have peaches and cream if you plan ahead!
    Those longlife products are good for food drops!
     
  27. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    Have you tried to buy UHT cream lately? Not available unless you like it lactose free. MG sold their Tas factory which made the Devondale UHT last year. Another option may become available later this year. How do you hide a 200 litre drum in the bush? We had 2 drops in the bush last year and each were 20 litre. More than enough in both. Drops are good if you have a base camp but not helpful if touring in an area not accessible to vehicles, or at least close to vehicle access. I would imagine a 200l drum would be quite heavy when full.
     
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  28. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I'll tick the box after I pack this seasons gear but probably much closer to 20 kilos than anything. Ski gear extra. I could probably get it down to 12 kilos if I spend some hard cash and hardened up some
     
  29. 7wombathead

    7wombathead One of Us

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    11.5 kG with water
     
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  30. Ubiquitous Steve

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    Get drum in situ...then back to truck a few times..fill it with goodies

    If you come up to an area multiple times......then leave most of stuff you come in with in the said drum.

    Maybe sixty litre drums are a good size and easy to move around...

    So leave drum in hiding place....Ski over with empty pack pick up goodies and return to where you are camping...obviously not too far!
     
  31. legend

    legend One of Us

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    20 L drums or similar are ideal for food drops, I use a blue/white polyrope tied high up in a tree and attached to the drum. Hard to see if you're not looking - blends in well with snowgums, but easy to trace when a metre or more snow is covering the ground. I do this when doing a basecamp at Youngs Hut or Mac Springs.
    I have a few drums that I no longer use - pm me if you want them for a small fee.
     
  32. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Ditto here with a couple of 200litre if you want to pick-up in Geelong
     
  33. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    @Moondog55 - I have a solid but old 3 person Mountain Designs tent you could have if you’re still after a tent - I got it 2nd hand and it’s surplus to requirements as I have a sierra and a Exped. - it had a rip in the fly which I have hand stitched and seam-sealed on both sides, so if you want to ‘swap’ it for a drum I’d be happy to oblige - I’m probably out Geelong way sometime soon.

    I’m more likely to use smaller drums for BC stashes, but have other storage uses for larger drums.
     
  34. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
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    Like in a bank vault?
     
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  35. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    LOL Snowtown -

    thankfully it's just my kayaking gear under the deck - garage is full.
     
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  36. Thomas WHiteside

    Thomas WHiteside Hard Yards

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    70L Mont 'escape' pack, Mont sleeping bag, 2 man tent, clothes bag (w/ thermals, spare socks, woollen jumper), crampons, shovel, probe, skins, food (cheese,salami, biscuits, tomatoes, olives, pasta, pesto, steaks, salad, dried peas, deb, scroggin, chocolate), stoves and gas, billy, water, whisky, and a few beers. Plus I pack a day pack for the actual skiing part of the trip. All adds up. Worth it though!

     
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  37. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I used to hang a billy off the back of my rucksack like that but the water sloshing around in it upset my balance on the turns
     
  38. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    It can also work as a cow bell which could be handy in a white out for others to find you. My preference is to have everything on the inside but a billy is one thing that can't unless you put it in a plastic bag.
     
  39. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    ALDI are selling cheap plastic sleds as of 19/5/18. They would be perfect for strapping a pack to it with octopus straps and towing it on skis with a harness of sorts.
     
  40. weerab

    weerab One of Us
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    They look pretty cheap and nasty as you would expect for $10. I bought one for about $60 from some snow/surf place in Moorabbin can't remember name. I attached a couple of poles (electric conduit tubes) to the sled which were attached to the waist harness part of a Whillans climbing harness. Worked really well except when you were traversing slopes but much better than carrying 20Kg plus on your back. I would pass it on but still live in the fantasy that I might use it one more time, you never know!
     
  41. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    I still have a Whillan’s harness in the depths of the gear box.
     
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  42. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
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    You can hire pulks in jindy should you need proof that dragging them sucks ass unless it's straight and flat
     
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  43. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    What’s better than a pulk or a sled. A teenage son.... Looking forward to the benefits of investing in an extra pair of BC skis and bindings... might as well get my own back...

    And he thought I was buying him a present :cool:
     
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  44. Mister Tee on snow shoes

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    Are you located in Melb. ? I am looking at doing some food drops , if time permits , before the gates are closed for winter.
     
  45. Ubiquitous Steve

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    I once pulled a big bag of briquettes into Cope Saddle from Trapyard Gap Barrier...up road ...some skidoo had flattened it too....but sleds and tobogans very good on formed tracks especially where groomers or skidoo said have been.
    Oh I remember also a short cut to Pretty Valley with sled....not a good idea!!was on ordeal!
    stay on gentle ground of formed roads and on ridge tops.
     
  46. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel Hard Yards

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    Now that the caching fetish folks have a new thread, can this go in it's proper direction - photos of shiny new lightweight toys for this season?
     
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  47. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Sorry none of my new toys are shiny or lightweight really
    No I am wrong
    I bought a S2S UL insulated mattress and a Nunatak Arc-Lite -20C quilt, plus an UL pullover windshirt for the days when I am working hard.
     
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  48. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Also I just weighed my overnite kit and it was just under 15 kilos so I ticked 16, but that is for an overnighter, for a week my base weight would be greater by a few kilos due to a bigger/ warmer/ more comfortable mattress and a warmer duvet second pot etc If I was fitter I could get it down to 11 kilos in a smaller lighter pack but the big WE Expedition weighs 3.6 empty and my skis are not counted in that
     
  49. legend

    legend One of Us

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    My last winter 8 day Overland Track weight was 16Kg fully packed - included Northern Lite snowshoes, micro spikes boot chains, and a two person Tarptent (Tarptent Straspire 2), ZPack 20ºF sleeping bag and Thermarest neoair. We had a great 2 day blizzard and -5º frosts. Pack was Osprey Atmos 65L.
     
  50. AuroraAustralis

    AuroraAustralis Hard Yards
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    One night trip to Mt Stirling = 12kg pack: includes tent, mat, sleeping back, food, stove, extra layer of clothes, helmet and small hip flask. Boots, poles, splitboard & skins are on the feet.

    Multi-night trip to Bogong = maybe 20kg :confused: , with ski gear and some more food on your back for the walk/climb up Eskdale spur. But I've only done this once, late season.