Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by climberman, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    Sorry. I think you misunderstand . Im talking within the ski area, as high as karels. There's plenty of high alpine within the lease hold. I never mentioned the main range .
     
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  2. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    And the single track I mean is the top part of the All Mountain frin the top if the Kosi chair.
     
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  3. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    is the "Iconic Trail" going to be walkers only?
     
  4. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    He talked about from the top of Kosi, my understanding was the mountain, not the chairlift. Apologies if I read it wrong.

    And @crackson I was specifically referring to single trail on the main range, not formed roads which I already pointed out were legal. And not Bob's Ridge.
     
  5. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    looks like everyone missed the slightly controversial bit in the DA for the heli pad on Signature!
     
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  6. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    As a walking guide for many years I saw so many riders illegally riding through groups of walkers on the track down from Kosci. And I never saw one cyclist doing trail work either.
     
  7. crackson

    crackson A Local
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    Mtb'ers have won the battle. We rule now.

    Sawpit Creek and Blue Lake walks will allow bikes soon.
     
  8. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    I have a DA in for a kayak hire at Blue Lake
     
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  9. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    To be fair, I’ve never seen a bushwalking group working on track as vollies, but most MTB track in NSW is hand cut and maintained by trail faeries and climbers have cliffcare which looks at access track building and maintenance, etc.
    bush walkers are the chosen few and need only to complain about the use habits of others and that ‘they’ should do something about tracks, etc. Bushwalking tracks and ladders and chains and chipped steps and built infrastructure don’t actually exist, but if there’s a footpad off one to a cliff it’s damage and must be stopped.





    Sorry, sore point LOL
     
  10. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    True, I should have said new MTB tracks in the true alpine. With the new veg laws you need to offset ecologies which are like for like. I'm not aware of any true alpine ecologies in private hands.
     
  11. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    I think the issue between vollies of the walking and biking variety is the timing. All the walking trails were created and maintained a long time ago and have been used by walkers ever since. In the 90s, bikes came through the walking trails a million miles an hour with not always a lot of respect for other track users and similar to the skiing/boarding divide, the originators of the track had their noses out of joint that others were using the trails created for another purpose and often almost being mown down in the process. I'm friends with a couple of top notch MTB course builders and they do amazing work all around the world. It's great that the bikers are coming in and creating purpose trails now, especially if they can keep the two past-times separate (but side by side) because I for one would never EVER go walking on a downhill bike trail. For the record, I walk and ride :)
     
  12. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    You weren't a climber in the 90's when Parkes just blanket banned all climbing were you?
     
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  13. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    What state are you talking about? What happened then? I'm not a climber but many friends are and I don't recall this at all.
     
  14. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Yes.

    And we had a ‘short-term’ break on climbing on the 3 Sisters to allow some recovery... which turned into a blanket ban and no corporate memory of any ‘short-term’ discussions or anything, acted like it was always banned instead of being popular since the ‘50’s.

    Councils were just as bad. BMCC were full of anti-climbers (‘look at the damage climbers do’ said from a four foot wide constructed walking track with handrails and steps... ). and I once spoke on the floor at Waverley as they wanted to ban Rose Bay and Rosa Gully. We have basically lost North Head which had some iconic and amazing routes.

    Now it’s all ‘community liaison’ and ‘working with community’ at Cliffcare working days.
     
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  15. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    Or the culture in NSW bushwalking of not sticking to trails.
     
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  16. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    NSW
     
  17. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    NPWS just blanket banned climbing in National Parks unless by exception. Also BASE, etc, etc.

    It’s mainly honoured in the breach.
     
  18. crackson

    crackson A Local
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    It's all shared infrastructure.

    Walkers just don't get it.
     
  19. crackson

    crackson A Local
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    I walked the AM couple of weeks ago.

    They sky didn't fall in.
     
  20. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    I’m (literally) not aware of any walking based vollie groups that do track work in any organised or disorganised way, until the recent work between NPWS and some folks for Hannels Spur was done. It’s the only example I know of. Climbers also do some assistance with vertical weeding/ bush regen at a number of NPWS sites in the broader Sydney area.
     
  21. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    Yup, that's pretty bad too, seen heaps of it. As a guide, it was my care and duty to help educate people to do the right thing and lead by example.
    Some people will always have a dipshit attitude no matter what.
     
  22. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    I don't think you understand. In most bushwalking areas in NSW there are no trails, Even if you get away from the main drags in the Snowies there are no trails. It is a real difference between NSW and Victorian walkers.
     
  23. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    I’m not sure this statement is strictly true, well not in Kosci anyway. Most of the trails I know are fire trails built over older tracks (bridal trails and stockman routes). Apart from a few walks around Perisher and Thredbo. Even the main range walk was an old road.

    Agree on the walking volunteer groups, I don’t know of any that cover Kosci and certainly none have shown up at the various Australian Alps days I’m dragged to. In regard to Hannel Spur this wasn’t organised by a group, this was driven by one person, who then called for assistance from friends.

    One thing I’ve noticed since getting into climbing more is that of all the outdoor user groups climbers would do the most for the areas they use, just look at the us at the moment with climbers leading the charge on national monument protection. And yes there are always bad examples. I think this is because of the exclusion they incurred in early years from land managers they are by far more self regulating and organised. I see mtn bikers going this way to an extent albeit I’d say there are more idiots in this group.

    Walkers have never been excluded so are haven’t had to rally as much so there are fewer groups.
     
  24. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    And most stockmans routes are plenty of thousands of years before that.

    I don't know of any that cover anywhere. I'm assuming I'm wrong but I never see any info on anything. Maybe tagging tracks with flagging tape...
     
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  25. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Funny you say this, I did a ride from Canberra to Thredbo all along fire trails.

    The looks and comments we got from hikers were funny, so many asking if we could “be there”, yeah the section between grey mare and valentines is questionable but we were respectful and pushed our bikes. We never rode past walker always stopped and let them pass.

    The Rangers we ran into were great, wished us well etc and told us to enjoy the trip.
     
  26. skull

    skull One of Us

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    can you link me to a route please
     
  27. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    I always think "on this road?" but I do like to say g'day to people. It's funny how rarely a walker looks beyond their feet. As a rider you can see them sometimes from kilometres away, coming ever closer, judging what they might do or where they might go and when you finally get close or say 'hello', 95% suddenly look up and are like 'whoah, where did you come from?'. 'FFS, get a lighter pack and stop staring at your feet!' is what I want to say! Anyway, takes all types.

    Grey Mare to Valentine is fully legal - page 132, 9.:

    9. Within the Wilderness Zone, permit cycling to occur on a seasonal basis along the following management
    trails only:
    •Cascades Trail (south to junction with Ingeegoodbee Trail - Pilot Wilderness Area);
    •Dargals Trail (south to junction with Hellhole Creek Trail - Jagungal Wilderness Area);
    •Grey Mare Trail (south to junction with Valentine Trail - Jagungal Wilderness Area);
    •Hell Hole Creek Trail (between Dargals and Round Mountain Trails - Jagungal Wilderness Area);
    •Nine Mile Trail (Pilot Wilderness Area);
    •Round Mountain Trail (Jagungal Wilderness Area); and
    •Valentine Trail (Jagungal Wilderness Area)
     
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  28. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    @zac150 - DHG to the Nine Mile and down to the Pinch R is a sick day out. Don't underestimate it. Shuttle out or a 1,000m-odd climb out and 20 or 30 or so k's to Jindy

    Edit: that’s a 1,000 metre climb
     
    #528 climberman, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  29. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Does an offset need to be untouched or can it be a rehabilitation site ie does Thredb have any old resort service trails or other degraded areas in the alpine that don't get used anymore that could in time be returned to their original state?
     
  30. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    You typically need many multiples of the original area even if they are in great nick . If rehabbing degraded areas you need even more multiples. It’s very expensive.
     
    #530 climberman, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  31. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    You suggesting an adventure? Are you guiding? I’m pretty’s sure @telecrag and @Untele-whippet arns can be twisted (may not take much force).
     
  32. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    I have done it. Its pretty hard, and fun on the Nine Mile. Biggest air I have ever done on that ride. Milto was counting water bars, but lost count in the 500's.
     
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  33. skull

    skull One of Us

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    I'm in too
     
  34. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Hmmmm
    Perhaps we have the beginning of a plan!
     
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  35. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us
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    I'd be keen...
     
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  36. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Id need an Ebike!

     
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  37. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    From memory, we left from Thredbo, and got picked up at the Pinch. It was around 900m of climbing, and 1800 descent. Big climb up to Bobs Ridge, fun run down to Cascades. Then it undulates till a last brutal climb at the Nine Mile junction. It then drops about a kilometre over 12ish Klms to the river. Some of the water bars would send you to your death. We stopped every coupla K to let the brakes cool. Most fun Ive had on a FT ever.

    But it feels like you climb as much as descend, we had a really strong crew (I was younger and fitter) one guy was the national 24hr, couple of well known locals, me and Milto. There were three climbing sections that no one made. I failed on about 5. milto was off the bike quite a lot, he was expending way more energy than anyone else.

    its a quite serious ride, into must take a PLB territory. Rescue is hours at best. One of our guys binned it on a jump, which slowed us down to about 7 1/2 hours, we were on track for about 5hrs.
     
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  38. VSG

    VSG Pool Room
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    This funny. All this talk of what is protected, not protected from walkers, ffs.

    First, the Snowies workers dragging heavy machinery all around the place, up to Valentines, heck, virtually to Kossie. Then full scale bushwalker intrusions in the 60s, 70s and even 80s into pristine environments, above 1500m.

    Then, the brumby issue. Wild pigs. Four wheel drive ferals. Thankfully most of that gross, intrusive human activity is done with.

    Lets walk. And be done with it.


    edit. great quote, climber person. :D "95% suddenly look up and are like 'whoah, where did you come from?'. 'FFS, get a lighter pack and stop staring at your feet!' is what I want to say!" To that I would add. Lose the devices. (Except the satellite enabled thingy for when stuff really goes to shyte).
     
  39. sastrugi

    sastrugi Part of the Furniture
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    Shame everyone doesn't have your attitude. A day in the park is to be enjoyed by everyone no matter how they're getting around. There are no 'battles', just attitudes.
     
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  40. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    We had around 6-7 hours ride time, plus breaks, and I was 15 years younger. One of us cracked some ribs and I munted my shoulder and was out of climbing for almost a year, in a very high speed waterbar incident.
     
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  41. crackson

    crackson A Local
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    Yay. Gang a bong and get it on.
     
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