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Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by climberman, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. LaNeige

    LaNeige One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It's raining men ...
     
  2. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    We're talking a lot of crap about the death barrel, but honestly you're more likely to die of old age on the merritts than you are falling off a chair on the gunbarrel
     
  3. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    If not death barrel then it needs to be drop-barrel. Can someone draw a drop-bear on skis hanging from a cable?

    (In good taste should probably avoid fall/slide for obvious Thredbo reasons)
     
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  4. sastrugi

    sastrugi At the centre of it all Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski industry worldwide is small, don't underestimate it.
     
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  5. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    That may be so but I think you’re missing the point. Chairs aren’t supposed to just drop off cables. Absolutely certainly not twice in three years. Riding these chairs is not supposed to be any sort of lottery, no matter how unlikely it is to happen to you. It’s not supposed to happen to anybody. And the operator shouldn’t be allowed to just shrug it off.

    On top of that a lot of the chat isn’t about the chair falling it’s about KT’s utterly feeble communication around the matter. “Yes a chair fell, but nobody died, it was some sort of act of god, so not our fault, and it was running shortly afterwards anyway, nothing to see here ... oh look there’s something shiny over there!”

    Two times in three years means we shouldn’t accept it being swept under the carpet ... again. I hope there’s been a fit and proper investigation and response because it’s literally a life or death situation. I wouldn’t like to be in a position of responsibility if it happens again with a worse outcome.
     
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  6. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I get the point, don't worry. I was referring to the jokes everyone's making (the nickname deathbarrel, etc), not the legitimate concern over the safety of the lift
     
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  7. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    The Aussie response: shock, disbelief, anger, concern, then humour ... too soon?

    I hope ‘Deathbarrel’ stays the course. I’ll be using it. I imagine KT will hate it. And that’s probably the point.
     
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  8. scottski

    scottski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    And that is probably why a few well placed T shirts for sale might get a reaction .
     
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  9. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    I don't think the ski industry pumps cash into Thredbo. The paying public does and the sentiment on most social media is that the incident has been forgotten about already. As for staff not working at Thredbo because of it, plenty more to replace them. Ski industry suppliers will still support them.

    This place is a bit of a positive feedback loop at times.
     
  10. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Someone design it and I’ll get one printed.
    I’m computer/graphic design illiterate.
     
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  11. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You could have some fun with it, deathbarrel the chair drop bears ride in Thredbo

    Or
    It’s this or deathbarre

    (Instead if discount ski lift) death barrel alternate
     
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  12. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    You could just straight up print a picture of the incident on the shirt. It's less creative though

    Of course there's the classic "I survived the deathbarrel express" but that's even less creative still
     
  13. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    A modification for the merritts gondola DA has been lodged
     
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  14. db2567

    db2567 One of Us

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    QUOTE="Alleve, post: 4015216, member: 70898"]A modification for the merritts gondola DA has been lodged[/QUOTE]
    Does that mean it will take another year or two to be approved?;)
     
  15. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Does that mean it will take another year or two to be approved?;)[/QUOTE]
    A decade at least
     
  16. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Anyone know what the amendment is for?
     
  17. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Had a quick look this morning, no major functional change as far as I could tell. From skiers/visitors point of view still the same project, more engineering around the top, mid and bottom stations I think. There were a lot of draw of cut and fill around the mid station.
     
  18. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Additional tree clearing, lower top deck due to delayed restaurant, etc
     
  19. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    New DA (DA 10064) for Black Bear - development of 14 apartments, carpark, restaurant. It seems to be the same as the other DA mentioned there (DA-33-7-2007) except with a new design.
     
  20. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pretty sure its the Bellevue developer.
     
  21. Townsend

    Townsend One of Us

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    and very sad it is!
     
  22. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I'll miss Black Bear. I realise it'll still be there in a new building, but it just won't be the same.
     
  23. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Black Bear is polarising. I “got” the love for it when it was an Austrian ski instructor hang out, drinking disgusting Austrian schnapps. But there’s barely an Austrian ski instructor in Thredbo now. There’s no Austrian vibe to the place. Personally, I just think it serves ridiculously over priced bistro food with so so service.

    Not dissing on people liking it. Like away. We all enjoy different things. But like I say I don’t “get” that one
     
  24. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    True, I don't go there much anyway. My favourite place in the village is the burger bar. Still, something about knocking down one of the original thredbo buildings from the 60s is a bit sad. I don't know why
     
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  25. Camnoger

    Camnoger Hard Yards

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    So I have a couple thoughts on thredbos lift developments that I'd like to throw around.

    First, Gunbarrel. Whilst KT have been historically known for doing nothing, I do think that this lift will see an upgrade to a 6 pack for two reasons
    1) The lift type itself is a very early detachable, and one of the last of its type remaining. These lifts are operational nightmares as they cost a lot more to repair and are generally much more unreliable having chain terminals. An example I'm familiar with is whistler Blackcomb which only has one lift of that type remaining (7th heaven) and it used to have more. As such, it makes sense for KT to upgrade it
    2) With all the deathbarrel talk, it would certainly make a mark on people of KT "caring"
    However, I do not see this lift being extended higher for cost reasons but also due to wind. Unlike Valley terminal, there's no alternative way out unless you're willing to take the easy does it to the magic carpet to the gondola or a shuttle bus to Valley terminal.

    Second, I think snowgums six is smart. I'd love to see it go past eagle's nest. I do think that the mid station would become detachable too if they did it for afformentioned capacity reasons, race access and shoddy weather days.

    Third, in terms of FF expansion I think that the snowgums chair could be reused for an expansion. Chuck in a tbar too and you've solved the capacity issues. It also makes a lot of sense as KT wouldn't really need to spend anything doing this.

    Finally, whilst your at the snowgums six, add in a bunch of T-Bars up top.

    Sorry if I've repeated a lot of other people!
     
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  26. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well Buller had the second Dopp detachable quad in the world and they kept it running for 35 years, Gunbarrel is a more recent generation than that and unlike Blue Bullet 1, parts for it are still available. Buller has a better record for replacing old lifts than any of the other major resorts in Australia, so it's not like they held onto it because they were reluctant to replace it or couldn't afford to.

    The Mt Perisher double chairlift is 58 years old and there has been no announcement of a replacement for it yet. Compared to the Mt P double, Gunbarrel is a mere youngster. So I'd dispute Camnoger's claim that geriatric chairllits are "operational nightmares". Yes they require more maintenance, but so do most things when they reach middle age. I suspect Gunbarrel could run for another decade or so before its cheaper to replace it than maintain it.
     
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  27. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Theyre obviously building up to it though. The chair is old. The leichhardt chair makes access to Mt p easier. Not to mention, they want highest lifted point. I don't think a Mt p six pack is far off.

    A new Gunbarrel would likely be planned, but it's probably not high priority. It would be 5-10 years off at least IMO.
    The snowgums 6 could be high priority due to wind. Lifts on hold piss people off something chronic.
    A FF expansion is definitely needed, although I'd expect a new chair for that, given the current capacity issues with the EDI Quad. A beginner T-bar down there would be appreciated.
    If anything, I'd expect the old snowgums double would be either sold to CP or stripped with the chairs auctioned (although in a dream world, it would be installed from tower 10 upwards).
    Whereabouts would you want t-bars?
     
  28. Camnoger

    Camnoger Hard Yards

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    I understand the blue bullet point my thinking is just that since the technology is very similar and other lifts have shown the unreliability it might be getting time to replace it soon. Also compared to fixed grip chairlifts, they have a short life expectancy. I may be incorrect, but that's what I've heard.

    Yeah I agree that snowgums is more vital. In terms of tbars, I haven't done enough backcountry/summer hiking to know exactly where they should go. However, describing poorly sorry, past the basin tbar behind eagle's nest would be good. The area there seems good for lifting and there's an area over that ridge that faces towards Charlotte's pass that the mt Kosciusko track goes through that I also thought looked good (though I'm not sure about aspect.)
     
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  29. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I think I know where you're referring to. I'm not sure how far the leasehold extends back there. Tbh I just want a Karels extension, prevent perisher from claiming highest lifted point and remove some unnecessary skating to get to better runs
     
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  30. Camnoger

    Camnoger Hard Yards

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    Yeah Im the same. Sorry I'm not too knowledgeable of that area nor the leasehold, I just look around imagining what skiing there would be like
     
  31. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I think a t-bar from the top of the cruiser up would be good, if not unfeasible due to costs and leasehold limitations
     
  32. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I heard a rumour on Sunday that - after Merritts - Gunbarrel will be replaced with a 6-pack, and the kosci replacement (unclear whether that is a literal kosci list replacement or snowgums replacement to be the new “main” lift) to go past the central spur side of eagle nest, to open up new territory
     
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  33. Camnoger

    Camnoger Hard Yards

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    Please let that be true! If they ever did that I'd never consider going epic again.
     
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  34. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Do you guys ever look at snow conditions beyond the existing lifts?

    Beyond basin,i sponsors and Anton's is windswept bare of snow most of the time. Same above cruiser except for the small slope above.
     
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  35. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    If they're smart, it'll be the snow gums and if they're deadset to expand, the new lift should have a detachable mid at black sallees. I know the trail map isn't very geographically accurate but I'm looking at it now and struggling to see how an expansion upwards would actually open new territory. However, I'm happy to be wrong
     
  36. LaNeige

    LaNeige One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I'd like to see a T-bar linking the central spur to the Basin. I haven't checked the contours, but something from round the junction of Eagle Way and Conrod Strait to behind Eagles Nest. O recall seeing an old trail map showing a T-bar in this location.

    This would mean that you could access the upper mountain with no need to use the major chair lifts and have access to the Basin on wind hold days.

    A lot of benefit from a small amount of investment.
     
  37. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Yes! I've mapped it, from around the area of Black Sallees and up pushed hard skiers left of Merritt's Falls. Bottom station can't go too much closer to Conrod Straight unless a lot of rock removal is on the cards, but that area below the big rocks provides some dam fine wind blown snow (ignoring all the traverse tracks) so not the ideal alignment. Village trail may need to redirected below Black Sallees to provide room for t bottom station.

    As for Snowgums, if it foes further it has to be bent to the left towards top of Basin's or Karels. Straight up gets you nowhere. If it's objective is to replace Kosci's function as rumoured, going straight does not get you access to the Basin, does not get you access to the top of Mt Crackenback/Eagles Nest and does not get access to the start of the mtn bike trails in summer. Going straight gets you to the lease hold boundary which opens up a slightly longer line on a pretty dull section of the village trail. Above that, as Snow Blowey points out, is windswept oblivion. I'm inclined to leave the top where it is and replace Kosci on same alignment. Snowgums/tbar providing extra capacity (not that Supertrail needs more people on it) and windy day uplift to basin.

    Like the idea of Snowgums old double becoming the 'new Ramshead' running from Tower Ten to top of Karels with mid in the basin. I'd go base station slightly higher than Tower ten, perhaps just above the random tree on runout from Little Beauty and turn the flats around Tower Ten into another carpark - no facilities other than toilets and maybe a simple Frost Bite styled eatery - this ones not for the masses but an overflow. Those flats offer not much anyway other than bogs and thin snow. Using six maps I can plot of path for a new sealed road using management trails and crackenback ridge most of the way up to Tower Ten that avoids ski runs.

    Sh*t, I can never resist a thredbo development chat.
     
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  38. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It is entertaining to vicariously spend Event's profits. Like Snow Blowey I can't see any point in taking lifts higher at Thredbo. Windswept oblivion is a good description of most of what is up there within the lease boundary. The higher areas of better snow and GCB can already be accessed from existing lifts or by a very modest hike.

    If I was the boss of Event I'd open the corporate purse and get them to firstly fix what is (or probably is) worn out by:

    - Actually building the proposed Merrits Gondola and new restaurant.
    - Replacing Deathbarrel using the existing pylons. 4 or 6 seats whatever works.
    - Replacing Kosci (ditto)
    - Most of the village facilities eg road surfaces, footpaths, toilets - including some new ones up on the mountain.
    - All the hidden stuff we may not even know about eg. power supply.

    Then if there is anything left in the kitty they should:

    - Replace Snowgums along its current line with a high speed lift with a mid station so you can get rid of the lycra clad racing types before they freeze to death.
    - Figure out a better way of transporting the peak season masses into the Village. Shuttle buses from a large carpark in the vicinity of Bullocks Flat could work.
    - Remove the derelict remains of the old Ramshead lift.
    - Build more car parking spaces in the Village.
    - Do some slope grooming and install some snowmaking on the upper Ramshead slopes.
    - Install more fan type snow making equipment instead of just using the lances to spray it down the valley towards Jindabyne.

    All sorted!
     
  39. kiter

    kiter One of Us

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    Thredbo will continue to have problems on crosswind days (wnw , w and sw ) on Kosi , watchacallitbarrel and cruiser , next year and beyond relying on merits and slowgums . The problem can be solved by reinstalling a t bar at merits along the old duplex line . This will give skiers access to the whole of the merits area , dream run and glades and Anton’s and sponars on high wind days and would be helpful in reducing lift lines on non windy busy days too . This utilises new gondola effectively for access and relieves mega lines on snowgums double . They might not even need a da as it’s an existing lift line that hasn’t regrown . Perhaps get the Poma from Cabramurra or old leichard tbar fro. Perisher
     
  40. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I kinda feel if there was a demand buses, they'd already be there. No-one wants to use a bus. People seriously prefer to pay park entry and fistfight for a parking space.
     
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  41. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Get rid of all the chairs and replace with t bars.
     
  42. rugbyskier

    rugbyskier One of Us

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    The problem with that idea is that the unload area would need to cover just about the whole of Fiveways, through traffic from the Cruiser to lower Walkabout, Ballroom and the Gunbarrel traverse combined with the T-bar unload would be a recipe for disaster. Reinstalling a T-bar on Squatters Run would require the unload to be below Fiveways, which would restrict users only to Merritts if the Cruiser chair is on windhold.
     
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  43. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah I’ve not felt Cruiser is wildly susceptible to high wind. When it’s shut it’s usually pretty wild up there.

    I’m content with the t-bars, although one more higher in the lease area south and west of central spur, and one more just south of Karels as far to the edge of the southern boundary of the lease area as possible while optimising snow retention would be good.

    Plus that desperately needed extra base lift. Pleeeeaaaaasssee.
     
  44. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I don't think a kosi upgrade is necessary. I also don't think it's possible (or that much cheaper) to install a six pack using old quad pylons. Due to wind reasons, the snowgums is a higher priority
     
  45. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The only reason to have buses is for other people to use them so I have plenty of places to park my car.

    As with most public transport requests, the public transport is to free space for my private transport.
     
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  46. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It is nearly as old as Gunbarrel and just last season its main engine failed in the school holidays. Perhaps they have fixed that properly but I suspect it needs some real love.
     
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  47. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    I thought it was at end of life due to wear and tear from 300 odd days of use a year ie no choice but to retire fairly soon. Perhaps if Snowgums gets upgraded to replace it's function in some way, they will be able to draw out the last years of its operation.
     
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  48. J_busworth

    J_busworth One of Us

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    Like all on here, I obviously have an expensive and overzealous wishlist for Thredbo. I don't think EVENT will ever spend quite enough money on Thredbo but I am glad to see some investment. At the moment I just hope they actually spend the $100m they have, but if they ever get more, my wishlist in order of expected build would be;

    - Put snowmaking on Dream Run
    - Merritts Gondola
    - Upgrade Merritts Mountain House
    - Replace Deathbarrel with a new detachable Deathbarrel 6 (same alignment)
    - Build a easy traverse from the bottom of Cruiser to the mid station on the Gondola with snowmaking
    - More car parking and a high frequency bus from Jindy (or some other place with parking)
    - A proper snowplay area at Merritts (maybe over in the old beginner bowl? a tube/tobggan park?)
    - Replace Snowgums with a new detachable Snowgums 6 including a detachable Bunnywalk station (same alignment)
    - Replace Easy Does It with a new detachable Easy Does It 6, moving top to allow for access to Gondola (can get rid of carpet)
    - Finally build a detachable Ramshead replacement. Tower 10 to above Karels, with a detachable mid station at the old top station
    - Add one or two more food options across the mountain and include toilets
    - A t-bar up one of the runs at Merritts to the five ways to allow access to Central Spur in high winds (although this could cause chaos)
    - Fan snowmaking guns in some areas
    - A redevelopment of Valley Terminal to make the layout less pokey and tacky and easier to get around
    - Replace Kosi with a Chondola or similar
     
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  49. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I think that when the snowgums replacement eventually comes, a relocation of the workshops would be on the cards. A straight line from kosi to snowgums is needed, you can't have groups of six at a time duck walking around sheds, especially if the snowgums is supposed to be the new main lift (which it should so KT can avoid the wind problems the kosi suffers).
    If a chondola is to be built, built it up the snowgums line, not the kosi line. Replace the kosi with a regular express quad. There's a reason they never use the kosi cabins.
    If snowgums is replaced by a chondola 6 chair/8 gondola, it could potentially be used at night for diners to snowshoe from the top station to kareela.
    A new EDI isn't needed. FF is already too busy. A FF expansion, even a new beginner area, is needed. The most difficult part of building a new beginner area is getting DA approval; expenses are no issue given the potential profits. The area would only need a simple fixed grip quad, snowmaking and some tree clearance, all of which are expenses that are easily made up for. Beginners are the most profitable customer group.
     
  50. Lifes2good

    Lifes2good One of Us

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    That would reduce the crowds I guess
     
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