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Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by climberman, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Scoober

    Scoober One of Us

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    It'll never get past environmental concerns, but it's nice to dream.
     
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  3. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    "Lift B" top 2052 metres. :rolleyes:

    Perhaps that's just trying to beat the new Mt P six-pack which will supplant Thredbo for the operating lift height record...
    and just to make sure, it would also beat the old Mt Northcote tow for the all time height record. :deadhorse:
     
  4. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lift B would be a work of art. And by that I mean that, thanks to constantly being on wind hold, it would just hang around and look pretty.
     
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  5. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    LOL
     
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  6. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It'll be the best lift accessed boiler plate and exposed heath run in the country.
     
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  7. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bit like ramshead?
     
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  8. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I haven't checked it on a contour map, but I suspect that it would be downhill almost the whole way from the top of Lift B to Charlotte Pass, which would make accessing that resort more interesting. But no way back to Thredders except for an uphill slog or going the long way via the road.
     
    #958 Bogong, Apr 27, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  9. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    You'd need a very firm grromed surface, the wind blowing from the south and a big sail to make that traverse work.
     
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  10. Alleve

    Alleve One of Us

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    What about something like this?
     
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  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I once skied from Charlottes to Thredbo on XC gear in 45 minutes with not much effort and a howling tailwind.
     
  12. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Brilliant, that's the most sensible and politically / environmentally possible plan for affordable, staged lift replacement and possible expansion at Thredbo I've seen in ages.

    I'm not sure so many of the chairlifts need to be 6-packs (queue management for the ones at Buller seems to be pretty hard for them), and I'm not convinced about extending Karel's, but who am I to assess the need for those things?

    Is it your work, or is it from the resort or some other body?
     
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  13. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    pretty sure kangaroo ridge would stop the downhill run, oh and Mt Stillwell.
     
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  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ramshead was a great lift back in the day...... recall epic laps to mid station in a certain bumper year 39 years ago.
     
  15. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh, he’s not that bad!!

    @Ramshead
     
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  16. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah the hard surface is usually a big assist but i was thinking of it as a resort traverse in downhill gear, rather than a skating track. Trip from top of Twin Valleys back to Merrits usually nice and quick also but plenty of pushing and skating required. .
     
  17. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wasn't skating.
     
  18. Alleve

    Alleve One of Us

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    This is my work, made in Microsoft Paint
     
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  19. XBo

    XBo First Runs

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    The proposal is a surface lift, that would be less exposed than Karel's, due to it's aspect (similar to Anton's) and in an area with more consistent wind blown accumulation, with cover holding well into October.
    The grade is fairly consistent at around 20%.
     
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  20. Ramshead

    Ramshead One of Us

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    Yes I am. I still think the obvious lift expansion area is west of the resort, not east BTW. A nice chair down to DHG with a T-bar up high. Never gonna happen and environmentally never should but would be good. Also think the golf course) as in the actual course, not the run) should be second Friday flat. No snowgums need be cleared
     
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  21. Alleve

    Alleve One of Us

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    The problem with the Golf Course is:
    -it's difficult to connect with the rest of the resort. The only feasible option is a chairlift to Tower 10, but unlike the Gunbarrel this lift wouldn't get you anywhere, and more pressure would be put on the VT lifts.
    -it possibly may be difficult to build a Sundowner style connection with the Golf Course as the only area where one could be cleared would be from Tower 10 towards the Golf Course.
    -the Golf Course is shorter than Friday Flat. Friday Flat is already pretty short (450m). To make the Golf Course long enough for a decent beginner run, tree clearing would have to take place above the Course.

    Pros of the Golf Course are:
    -most of the land clearing is already done
    -wide open space for buildings and other developments
    -located near the village
    -only requires two quad chairlifts, both fixed-grip if KT wants to save money

    A potential Golf Course development could look something like this:
    Personally I'm more a fan of replacing the Gunbarrel Express and expanding Friday Flat with a new run and quad above the Beginner Bowl, but that option also suffers from many of the same issues regarding snowmaking and tree clearance.

    As for the Lift B mentioned above, it doesn't seem like a bad idea
     
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  22. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have also skied it in the other direction (without a howling tailwind). IIRC, there are a couple of uppies but nothing too drastic. Depending on your start and end points most of the down is inside the boundary of Charlottes resort. I don't think the grade would be enough to move without poling on downhill skis for the majority of the distance.
     
  23. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    I'm still coming to terms with the enormous shed hovering above the top of Giddyup / end of High Noon with the gondola build. Why not back it into the trees on the high side of the gondola cable? There must be a reason, but ... damn!
     
  24. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    Pretty sure it's that way to take advantage of the drop off on the downhill side so the shed doesn't stick up quite as high as it would need to be on the other side. The uphill side will be used for mid station loading. A shame that the whole thing has cocked up the exit from the schuss which was probably the best bit about it but that's progress.
    The hilarious bit is going to be traffic from giddy up, people walking uphill from giddy up to load and through traffic from the schuss all merging under the station.
     
  25. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Yeah, they'd have needed to dig it into the hill on the high side, but that would have tucked it out of sight. Maybe they had issues with the NPWS (focused on keeping the area pristine). But still ... damn! The first time I ski down High Noon and come around that corner I'll be cringing.
     
  26. Billy_Buttons

    Billy_Buttons Que Sera, Sera Ski Pass: Gold

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    No you won't. Do you cringe already from all the lift towers or snow guns everywhere?
     
  27. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Nah, I expect to cringe.
     
  28. Alleve

    Alleve One of Us

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    If the carrier shed were to be built on the uphill side, it would have to be built at least this far back.

    This causes issues as the rail from the mid-station to the carrier shed would have to be on an angle for the gondolas to travel uphill to the shed, and the rail could interfere with snowmaking operations as snow from the snow cannons would potentially just blow straight into the rail (new snowmaking pump is shown in that image as the blue circle just below the purple and black rectangle). Also, this is more expensive and has more environmental impacts. KT chose the cheapest and most efficient option. I just wish they would clad the underside of the shed so the supports aren't visible, and maybe plant some trees around where the carrier shed is
     
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  29. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I wouldn't worry about the underside. The snow-line will be up to the floor, for sure.
     
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  30. J_busworth

    J_busworth One of Us

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    Based on a quick look on Google Maps Street view and a knowledge of the local area, I'd day that the lift B proposal would work, and there would be enough snow. Its not exactly windblown heath and would likely hold up well with some grooming.

    You could line up the bottom on the T-bar to the new top of Snowgums (which would detach at Black Sallees on Windhold days). On wind hold days, access via Sponars would be possible, but more likely one would go Snowgums, Ramshead, Basin, Lift B.

    Between a Tower 10 to Basin Ramshead, Snowgums to Lift B base with a detachable mid with line split at Black Sallees and a Lift B T-Bar, the new highest lift in Australia, Thredbo would improve significantly with just two new runs. One can dream.
     
  31. Covo

    Covo Hard Yards

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    There is no way in the world that lifts E, F and B would ever happen. This is because lifts B and F are outside of the lease area and in the case of lifts F and E, would entail large scale land clearing
     
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  32. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    There is at least one recent case of boundaries being changed. Falls Creek ski resort coveted a nice (but environmentally degraded) bit of land of the shore of Rocky Valley Lake, but it was inside the adjoining national park. So the resort and Parks Victoria did a swap. Falls got their lakeside real estate and in return, parks got a much larger bit of lovely snowgum woodland that was inside the resort boundaries, but distant from any possible future development.

    Everyone was happy with the land swap and there weren't any complaints, not even from greenies. :)
     
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  33. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep. Not going to happen for the reasons you state. B would be a wind nightmare despite the protests otherqise. Sponar's is prickly enough. Although there is good wind loading above on the line of B it does not cover enough area in my brief experience of the terrain to warrant lifting, combine that with fairly regular closures due to wind/visibility there is little value to be gained. E is pointless, if it is for access to F you could get there and back via Merritts and as you say extensive clearing would put an end to E & F it before it started. If E is for a new beginner lift than environmental it becomes an even bigger problem than just the land clearing as now you have a beginner lift crossing the fall line of a steep slope ie an absolute *** load of earthworks to create a suitable beginner run or two. Even A has been identified as an issue by those who have a background in environmental planning. C & D it is!

    I only have one request of Thredbo that will go unmet I am sure, same one as always, is the option to not have to ski out to the base to ski the best of Thredbo. When the snow is nice and dry top to bottom you can ski it top to bottom and when it's wet crowded slop or white ribbons of death, Tower ten/Lovers Leap or whatever other mid/base station it is! That still gets you all of GCB,Funnel Web, Bluff/Cannonball into trees/Little Beauty/True Blue or the glades under Snowgums to Bunny Walk.
     
  34. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    That shed is going to radiate ...
     
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  35. Ramshead

    Ramshead One of Us

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    Yeah they buggered up Kosi mid station all those years ago. It needs to be getonnable at so you can avoid the white ribbon below it. They never even use it anymore. I reckon they did wrong getting rid of Kareela station too. Late late season it used to be good fun skiing bluff just to Kareela and also Sponars could be kept open along with Basin T cos u could scoot back across via Conrod Str. When I go late Sept I always ski Perisher now cos they have more open. Kareela plus sponars would change that but there's probably only about 10 people who ski that late and think about it that hard.

    Agree also with Snowgums mid stations. Invaluable. One sickeningly blizzardy day about two years back, we skied bunny walk to village laps via Lovers Leap in fresh snow when up high was too feral. But of course, like you, we more often use Bunny Walk to go up and lap bushys. Thankfully snowgums mid stations are open most of the time still.

    Ski resort development is weird. As regulars to resorts, we feel a sense of ownership but have zero say in what happens.
     
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  36. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    There is always the danger they do listen to the regulars and make some terrain too accessible, leading to your favourite spot getting crowded out eg Leichhardt and Freedom chairs at Perisher.
     
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  37. Covo

    Covo Hard Yards

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    I do think that lift C will definitely happen in the next few years. it will probably be a high speed six chair with a detachable mid station (so that they can run the lower bit on windy days) at the Black selles cafe, and the top station will probably be a little bit higher than eagles nest, which could see some new terrain be opened up and provide additional access to antons and sponars.
     
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  38. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Social distancing.
     
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  39. Alleve

    Alleve One of Us

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    I was really excited when I saw a new DA lodged from Thredbo. It was a little underwhelming when I saw that it's just for a replacement of the large maps at Valley Terminal. The design includes two maps that will be changed biannually to reflect what season it is, with an LED screen in the middle. The DA has only been up for a couple of days and is already at the assessment phase so I'm assuming that it will be built before this winter season.
     
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  40. Covo

    Covo Hard Yards

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    Since Thredbo is in a national park, you need a DA for virtually any development proposal no matter how minor it is.
     
  41. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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  42. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Just re read back in this thread

    Black bear will be demolished if the DA gets approved

    Makes me sick
     
  43. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Well it felt like 45 mins ??
     
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  44. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well it might have significant memories for you, but is Black Bear (as it is now) important for broader society or even just Thredbo? I know it was one of the early buildings at Thredbo and that it was run by historically important people. But sadly, the Thredbo pioneers are mostly gone and the building has been altered so much in over 60 years that very little of historical significance remains.

    So I have no trouble with them knocking it down, or am I being too harsh?
     
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  45. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's only about 8 km from the Pass itself to the top of the chair, and relatively flat.
     
  46. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Pretty much spot on!!
     
  47. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I agree entirely. I’m just worried the proposal goes a little higher than it should. I don’t think there’s anything notable in the building to preserve except perhaps rebuilding the existing bar somewhere in the new development
     
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  48. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    Not yet! DA was knocked back on 6 Nov 2019 and is now in the hands of the Lands and Environment Court. We are having an oral submission on 17 Nov 2020, if you would like to help us out. I believe there were over 150 written submissions last year which helped us delay this development.
    I am not against the Black Bear redevelopment as the original DA from 2008 was approved, but the amended DA is in breach of so many rules and ethics we couldn't allow it to happen.
    I think they will have to go to a third set of plans down the line plus really do something to make neighbours happy and compromise. It's not helping KT are standing back and are seemingly in favour of the development at the expense of neighbouring properties outside of their own Master Plan guidelines.
     
  49. Townsend

    Townsend One of Us

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    I think most people accepted that it would be knocked down. However it is totally unacceptable to build a seven story building that takes up the entire block of land, has a thoroughfare through adjoining properties, removes virtually the entire view from the lodge behind it, is so high that the unheated road behind it will have no sun during the winter, will not have sufficient parking and so will ensure that people unpack their cars on the main road.

    These developers have already built Belevard which is one of the uglier buildings in Thredbo
     
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  50. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Correct the height and where people walk is the issue