Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

BlueHue

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Sundance was the main snowmade slope on the village side before Kosci went in. Itcould be so again.
Makes more sense to me, has a better aspect for retaining snow/snow quality and a sustained pitch more in keeping with the rest of Supertrail pretty much right to the bottom. Might allow the current main runout to hold its snow better with reduced traffic.
 
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BlueHue

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Ok so snowgums becomes a key lift which makes sense as it’s wind protected compared to Kossie. 3 questions:

1. will it go higher than black sallees? My guess is no. Seems they want to move more intermediates over there to ease pressure on Merritts area.

2. how do you get to the bottom? Better snowmaking on Sundance or the main supertrail way and u still have to plod around the back of the Kossie raceway? Or perhaps they’re thinking top station to mid station as the main ski and boarding option.

3. Will there still be a bunny walk (upper mid) station? It is good for a) Bushranger laps on POW days and b) laps down to village on super windy days.

Also a question about new Kossie:

Will they have a working mid station? If so I believe it should go higher than the current one but lower than old kareela, perhaps on the flat below the steep face under old kareela, at the junction of World Cup and upper true blue. Would mean bluff remains skiable pretty much till season’s end.

PS have ridden alpine coaster at Montgenevre in France. It was SICK!
Like the idea of a Kosci mid around Kareela face. Number of times I've looked at late season cams and bluff is still nicely covered with a viable route out to World Cup/Supertrail but no go as World Cup cover peeters out pretty quick below Kareela face in Spring leaving no exit.

Probably way too much to ask but I'd go a second mid further down around where Kosci crosses Supertrail/Milk Run. Main reason being to be able to ski Bluff Cannonball/Bluff into True Blue/Little Beauty without going to the bottom. That side of Crackenback is pretty much a waste of time below 1500m, no pitch, crowded and variable often poor quality snow - Sundance side much better for full top to bottom. Would help to reduce wear and tear on current run out as well.

Also needs a windy day option to get to basin which is currently not a goer as soon as Kosci is down. To me that's either a t-bar above Snowgums current top station or the old Tower Ten to Karels but as a two stager that fully detaches at a mid around bottom of basin.
 
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Billy_Buttons

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Rebuild Kosci to the original Crackenback line with Mid Station at Meadows and Kareela Station at Kareela. :)
 
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Alleve

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I must say, I am very excited.

Diver said they'll move the maintenance buildings - definitely referring to the ones at VT but it'll be interesting to see what happens to the cat sheds too.

He mentioned there will be a mid-station at the cat sheds. Does that mean that the Bunny Walk station is gone and Snowgums will only have one mid? Guess we'll have to wait for the DA on that. It'll also be very interesting to see just what form and route the Alpine coaster and ziplines take. I've never seen a zipline anywhere near as long as the Kosi before, let alone one incorporating 7 lines.

Of course Deathbarrel will be replaced. Shedding chairs isn't really a premium experience. Im surprised to see them prioritise the Cruiser over the Kosi though, given the Kosi's 4 years older and runs more than twice as often. I guess it doesn't matter as much if the Kosi breaks down bc of new Snowgums.

Im glad to finally see them finally address the maze of buildings at VT. They may need to push the Kosi terminal forward if they want the masses lining up for the Snowgums from milk run. There isn't much space for people to squeeze past the Kosi.*

If they've already done the DA as Diver says, it seems we can reasonably expect it soon. Get excited! Given their record, it seems Thredbo lift replacements are a once in a lifetime occurrence these days so Im certainly banging a gong for this. Wonder when they'll replace EDI and make Thredbo fully detachable.

*photo attached. That gap is maybe two skiers wide.
Screenshot_20210808-001141_Maps.jpg
 

LMB

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Wonder when they'll replace EDI and make Thredbo fully detachable.
EDI is perfectly fine as is.
Transit time is just over 5 minutes.

Most beginners need the time it takes on that short lift to catch their breath, rest their weary legs for a sec and think about the next run down.

Heavily used for first timer and beginner lessons, the lift ride is teach time. What we’ve just done, what we are going to do next lap, Alpine responsibility, snow cover types, snowmaking (what are those big poles in the center of the run?), lift types, where to go for dinner/drinks…

EDI works fine.

Let’s get snowgums and Kosi sorted!
 
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JG

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I am too young to remember the old Cracknback line, but old enough to have ridden Ramshead…so I agree that Ramshead from Tower 10 even back to its original top station would be a huge benefit.

It sounds like the new mid station will be near the current Cat Sheds, this area could also become the chair housing for both Kosci and Snowgums, with integrated midstaions as per the new Gondola (we have seen that the sheds don’t need to take up valuable base realestate). This also resolves your early and late season low altitude issue, and opens up the entire valley loading zone for all 3 lifts, with easy entry from both sides

Agree LMB - EDI needs no change…

Apologies VSG for my rookie effort on the mark-ups…. :)

02346E88-0868-41D3-890B-4B06F0D1ED09.jpeg


8BAEE8D4-704C-49CC-AD75-F32C5F9F0631.jpeg
 
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snowgum

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This whole upper section is poorly serviced.

20210808_062824.jpg
To the uninitiated, one might think Thredbo planners ran out of money or inspiration with respect to the upper mountain. Coming from Vic, it’s amazing game to see the breadth of terrain theoretically available to alpine ski.

Even if mid winter, would see lots of closures, spring to say mid October would have to offer lots of potential for an expanded lifted area? (Notwithstanding those creeks opening up mid field?) :whistle:
 

Principal Douglas

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Personally I’d make the cat shed area the new base area. Have some kind of funitel from the Village Square to the new base area (plus the Snowgums 6-pack). Ramshead from Tower 10, big mid station at the bottom of the Basin, top station at top of Karels. New Kosci chair from cat shed area to Eagles Nest. Basically raise the base elevation while technically keeping the full top to bottom thing.
 

DPS Driver

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Personally I’d make the cat shed area the new base area. Have some kind of funitel from the Village Square to the new base area (plus the Snowgums 6-pack). Ramshead from Tower 10, big mid station at the bottom of the Basin, top station at top of Karels. New Kosci chair from cat shed area to Eagles Nest. Basically raise the base elevation while technically keeping the full top to bottom thing.
That's a good idea.
 
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Alleve

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EDI is perfectly fine as is.
Transit time is just over 5 minutes.

Most beginners need the time it takes on that short lift to catch their breath, rest their weary legs for a sec and think about the next run down.

Heavily used for first timer and beginner lessons, the lift ride is teach time. What we’ve just done, what we are going to do next lap, Alpine responsibility, snow cover types, snowmaking (what are those big poles in the center of the run?), lift types, where to go for dinner/drinks…

EDI works fine.

Let’s get snowgums and Kosi sorted!
I meant it more of a joke than anything else, given that EDI will be the only fixed-grip left after SG is replaced.

They should do something to increase FF's capacity. During school holidays the lift-lines can reach upwards of 30, 45 minutes. Replacing EDI won't solve anything because the FF run itself isn't large enough to support that, and the run can't really be widened. If I were them, I'd build another run near the new carpark with a T-Bar on it so that beginners don't need to go down the Easy Rider terrain park to learn T-Bars. I assume at some point theyll revamp EDI like they did to Merritts in the early 2000s.

SG's carrier shed will be at the mid - thats certain. Nowhere else has the space for it. When they replace Kosi it'll have to have a mid because I very much doubt they'll want to put the carrier shed down at VT. It takes up too much space as it is.

Another question this raises - what happens in summer? Does Black Sallees replace Eagles Nest as the on-mountain restaurant? If so, is KT going to buy Black Sallees? Do Kosi walkers still catch the Kosi or the SG? If the latter, it seems like the walk would be less accessible. Will SG just be a 6 seater, or a chondola?
 
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JG

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Possibly modernise/upgrading EDI to a fixed 6 would obviously increase capacity 50%.
Would need to widen the unload a little, as it already gets crowded. Not sure if Nat Parks would approve but a few trees could be taken out up the top.
Yes another surface lift over near the car park would help spreads out the people, the area is somewhat cleared already, but a some trees and shrubs would need to go.

A5BA6D5B-7D87-48F2-8238-F3FD5216EFE8.jpeg
 
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Alleve

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Possibly modernise/upgrading EDI to a fixed 6 would obviously increase capacity 50%.
Would need to widen the unload a little, as it already gets crowded. Not sure if Nat Parks would approve but a few trees could be taken out up the top.
Yes another surface lift over near the car park would help spreads out the people, the area is somewhat cleared already, but a some trees and shrubs would need to go.

A5BA6D5B-7D87-48F2-8238-F3FD5216EFE8.jpeg
Nat'l Parks would hate that plan because wombats live in those trees. I believe there's even a "Wally Wombat" sign there. If I was going to increase the EDI's capacity, I'd do it through a high speed quad. Replace the terminals and grips with detach equipment, re-use chairs, towers. Nominal capacity would only increase by 400pph but the reduction of misloads and slowdowns would lead to a fairly big increase imo. Just don't put a carpet on the load. Would be a fairly cheap conversion imo. The best way of increasing capacity would just be leaving the EDI alone and building another run with a surface lift. Not sure how the Nat'l Parks will feel about it tho.

Back on topic, I've just realised that the new SG will be the first D-Line* lift in Australia. The Mt P 6 was planned to be the first D-Line, but its been shelved and the SG might take the title. One can hope KT fits it with wind hoods

*Doppelmayr's new lift design. Currently they use D-Line for 6/8 chairs, 10 gondolas. Merritts was an 8 gondola so it used the older UNI-G design.
 

LMB

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Possibly modernise/upgrading EDI to a fixed 6 would obviously increase capacity 50%.
Would need to widen the unload a little, as it already gets crowded. Not sure if Nat Parks would approve but a few trees could be taken out up the top.
Yes another surface lift over near the car park would help spreads out the people, the area is somewhat cleared already, but a some trees and shrubs would need to go.

A5BA6D5B-7D87-48F2-8238-F3FD5216EFE8.jpeg
Getting 6 brand new first timer boarders off a 6 pacwould be fun. It’s already carnage with a 4.

But I rate the surface lift suggestion. An easy t bar would mean practice in a low risk environment before progressing to basin and easy rider.
 

JG

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Getting 6 brand new first timer boarders off a 6 pacwould be fun. It’s already carnage with a 4.

But I rate the surface lift suggestion. An easy t bar would mean practice in a low risk environment before progressing to basin and easy rider.
I see what you mean about the unload…I have 5 kids so over the years I have perfected the unload of multiple kids…obviously not as many as our finest instructors ;)
 
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Onlybackscratchers

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I see what you mean about the unload…I have 5 kids so over the years I have perfected the unload of multiple kids…obviously not as many as our finest instructors ;)
A fixed grip 6 pack would surely be a issue. Speaking of which, I've never seen one, do they exist?
 
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LMB

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I see what you mean about the unload…I have 5 kids so over the years I have perfected the unload of multiple kids…obviously not as many as our finest instructors ;)
All you need is one to turn their board sideways early and they skittle the lot.
Or hooking up on the back of someone else’s board.

Although to be fair if it’s a detachable 6 with a flat get off that may not be as much of an issue as they can skate off.

The V8 can be horrible at times. Got no where to go while they crash and burn around you.
 
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Telezacski

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So in short nothing new from the article…

this I for was public knowledge pre Covid and discussed at length a few pages back. That said it is nice to know it’s still on the agenda
 
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VSG

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To the uninitiated, one might think Thredbo planners ran out of money or inspiration with respect to the upper mountain. Coming from Vic, it’s amazing game to see the breadth of terrain theoretically available to alpine ski.

Even if mid winter, would see lots of closures, spring to say mid October would have to offer lots of potential for an expanded lifted area? (Notwithstanding those creeks opening up mid field?) :whistle:
Wind. Lots, and strong.
 
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VSG

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...HS quad. Replace terminals and grips with detach equipment, re-use chairs, towers. .. capacity ..increase by 400pph but reduction of misloads and slowdowns ..... The best way ... leaving the EDI alone and building another run with a surface lift. ......

...
increase FF's capacity. During school holidays the lift-lines can reach upwards of 30, 45 minutes. ....build another run near the new carpark with a T-Bar ...
...
Way too sensible a post. Go away. ;) No, I like what I read. Great approach.
 

Top Rock

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Probably the best bang for buck and whats needed more than anything............ is a easy/beginner trail from merrits-FF.
This would ease traffic on HN and Village trail (mis labeled "green") plus stop the download nightmare!!

An Option thats been looked at but seemingly ignored on and off for 30 years is to upgrade and slightly realign the cat track/summer road. less than 5% all the way
The steep section could be avoided by zigging back to schuss and back.
Protected South facing all weather run and good for snowmaking.
50-60% already cleared and surveyed.
Access Gondi and FF
No Cross over/collision zones with other trails
Also with a bit of judicious tree clearing, one could open a nice intermediates glade skiing as well :emoji_evergreen_tree::ski::emoji_evergreen_tree:


Merrits to FF.png

(apologies to VSG)
 

VSG

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Probably the best bang for buck and whats needed more than anything............ is a easy/beginner trail from merrits-FF.
This would ease traffic on HN and Village trail (mis labeled "green") plus stop the download nightmare!!

An Option thats been looked at but seemingly ignored on and off for 30 years is to upgrade and slightly realign the cat track/summer road. less than 5% all the way
The steep section could be avoided by zigging back to schuss and back.
Protected South facing all weather run and good for snowmaking.
50-60% already cleared and surveyed.
Access Gondi and FF
No Cross over/collision zones with other trails
Also with a bit of judicious tree clearing, one could open a nice intermediates glade skiing as well :emoji_evergreen_tree::ski::emoji_evergreen_tree:


Merrits to FF.png

(apologies to VSG)
Is that close to a MTB track alignment?
 

Telezacski

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Probably the best bang for buck and whats needed more than anything............ is a easy/beginner trail from merrits-FF.
This would ease traffic on HN and Village trail (mis labeled "green") plus stop the download nightmare!!

An Option thats been looked at but seemingly ignored on and off for 30 years is to upgrade and slightly realign the cat track/summer road. less than 5% all the way
The steep section could be avoided by zigging back to schuss and back.
Protected South facing all weather run and good for snowmaking.
50-60% already cleared and surveyed.
Access Gondi and FF
No Cross over/collision zones with other trails
Also with a bit of judicious tree clearing, one could open a nice intermediates glade skiing as well :emoji_evergreen_tree::ski::emoji_evergreen_tree:


Merrits to FF.png

(apologies to VSG)

I think the Gondola has resolved this issue, if you can’t ski the village trail then the Gondola is your friend.

For mine there is a lot of skiable terrain between eagles nest and Sponors, above the falls and ego alley. With a good chair placement you could add some really good terrain
 

Onlybackscratchers

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I've often wondered why this option never comes up for discussion. From old tower 10 to Eagles Nest. Obviously to work that with would require a realignment of a new
Kosi at the top or its removal. It would give you approximately 450m of vertical to play with from about 1950m to 1500m.
20210808_192919.jpg
 
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Telezacski

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I've often wondered why this option never comes up for discussion. From old tower 10 to Eagles Nest. Obviously to work that with would require a realignment of a new
Kosi or its removal at the top. It would give you approximately 450m of vertical to play with from about 1950m to 1500m.
20210808_192919.jpg

For me I think any new chair needs to open up more terrain, it’s a bang for buck thing. If you are going to the effort of getting d.a approval etc etc you want to add more.

That said I like the idea of mid stations that lift the resort on days where the bottom just isn’t with skiing
 

Onlybackscratchers

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For me I think any new chair needs to open up more terrain, it’s a bang for buck thing. If you are going to the effort of getting d.a approval etc etc you want to add more.

That said I like the idea of mid stations that lift the resort on days where the bottom just isn’t with skiing
I have absolutely know doubt that I'm starting to head into dream territory. Spending money on advanced terrain is certainly out of fashion in OZ and environment approvals probably wouldn't happen anyway. The extra benefits of finishing at Eagles Nest over the bottom of the Basin is probably outwayed by the wind issue as well.
 

Telezacski

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I have absolutely know doubt that I'm starting to head into dream territory. Spending money on advanced terrain is certainly out of fashion in OZ and environment approvals probably wouldn't happen anyway. The extra benefits of finishing at Eagles Nest over the bottom of the Basin is probably outwayed by the wind issue as well.

Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see more technical terrain opened up. The one advantage I see in your suggestion is it spreads the resort more left to right but I think it needs to finish somewhere else to have the full advantage of this.
 

Top Rock

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superimposing your track on the MTB.... makes sense.

mtb thredbo.jpeg
Yes, about this alignment…. Definitely avoid going over to dreamrun, as it’s not ever going to be beginner friendly.

Not discounting all (well mostly) the great new lift suggestions here, but Thredbos usual problem is not so much uphill capacity, but dispersing people over the mountain whilst avoiding mixing different standards of riders on the same trail. The new Merrits to FF trail would take an amazing amount of people of lesser standard off the main trails….. and give a lovely winding long beginner trail through the forest home…..everyone wins!


(now if money and Parks are not an issue I could discuss my funicular from DHG carpark to Saturday peak option to really open some terrain !! But there might be a small hitch or two…)
 
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BlueHue

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One thing to keep in mind is the vast majority of investment gping into Thredbo chairs going forward will give as much consideration to summer plans as well as winter. If it does not fit into mtn biking trail plans or new alpine coasters/zip line plans it's probably not going to happen. Only exception to that IMO is beginner lifts ie if EDI needed upgrading or they decided on a second beginner area at Merritts. IMO lift alignments will stay largely as is with minor adjustments.
 

LMB

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Pretty pumped for the zip line TBH. I was fortunate enough to have a go at the zip line in Grindelwald (Grindelwald First). The gondola is a 3 stage gondie- and IIRC the zip line runs between the middle leg.

PB and I rode past it a few times before making the decision to have a go. 1st mid to second mid. Leave boards there, walk up to zip line platform, whheeeeee, get back on first mid, up to second mid , reclaim boards and on our way. Was great fun! Would do again!

F608C638-4EBE-4DC3-B70D-C0E50EB79508.jpeg
818FE54D-5F19-4E0A-8D32-36EB12C20BE2.jpeg
7B2C923B-D4FF-4E1B-B80D-4859523B4AC7.jpeg
 

BlueHue

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I think they (whoever they are/were) in the era of KT, owned by a cinema chain? were considering going south. I will chase the actual leased area.
Just google Alpine SEPP Thredbo. South has significant subalpine and alpine biodiversity. It'd be a tough gig to get a workable project up.
 
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Alleve

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Capture.PNG
A page I noticed in the Snowy Mountains SAP. A few comments:

1. - A gondola from Jindy to Thredbo would never work. Even from Bullocks flat, it's a stretch - ~13kms long, not accounting for bends. This image shows the straight line distance between SkiTube carpark and Thredbo Overflow carpark.
1.PNG

2. - Ski resort expansion may be on the cards in 10 years. Thredbo is likely the only resort to meet the criteria of "all year round". Not sure how much money they'll wanna spend after their $100 million lift replacement bonanza.
3. - In order to support an expansion, Thredbo will need more beds. I saw something in the SAP about more accommodation being built at VT tennis courts and on the golf course, reducing the course to 6 holes + extension of Alpine Hotel.
 
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