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Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by climberman, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    New chairs should be escalators underground in tunnels. With donuts and coffee and grid girls.
     
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  2. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    With a bit of adjustment, you could locate top station to give a cat track to Karels load.
     
  3. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    That would be useful, especially if it gave "green run" access to the Basin T as well.

    But Karels Is a bloody useless lift anyway. Unless you want to slide back down beside the lift line it's an ugly slog uphill to get anywhere interesting from there. There are some nice runs down from that part of the mountain but it's hardly a surprise that they're vastly under used because you need to be defibrillated by the time you get to the top of them.

    From a punter perspective that's not an issue because most people will only go there once and then bugger off because it's all too much bloody hard work. But from the resort's point of view of getting more people to spread out across more terrain it's a bit of a fail. To me it's obvious why Karels is vastly under-used, becuse it only goes 95% of the way up the hill.

    If it were me running the place I'd want to claim back the "Australia's highest chairlift" title from PB, preferably putting the top station of the new lift above the top of Mt Perisher so PB can't add another tower and claim it back, and hopefully as a result it'd open up access to al those nice blue trails at the top of Karels without having to skate a hundred metres uphill before getting to a downhill run.

    And while I'm on the soapbox, maybe some better signposting up there wouldn't go astray either. When you do get up there it's a bit hard to tell whether you're going down a blue run or into FW or GCB.
     
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  4. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    I've had a think about it. Leave it just the easy it is. Perisher had say 10000 skiers today,Thredbo maybe 2000 I was lapping gcb off the Kosi in 15 mins with no one around. Thredbo is perfect.
     
  5. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I reckon if you provide better access to GCB it won't increase the number of people going in there significantly. Most people aren't looking for that type of terrain.

    As a resort operator (which I'm not) I'd be trying to get more punters up on the runs off Karels and Basin. There's a heap of room up there and relatively few people using it. It's the lift system that keeps them away. You don't ride two T-bars up a small hill in order to then slog 200 metres up a moderate incline just to get to the top of upper supertrail when you can get to more interestng terrain straight off a quad chair.
     
  6. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    A bit more thought on where this new lift will top out.

     
  7. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  8. sbm

    sbm One of Us

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    If you're not fit enough to skate the 10m at the top Karels, I'm concerned a few of you aren't able to truly appreciate the non-stop top to bottom supertrail run that follows :D

    A T-bar in the GCB could actually open up the place a bit without ruining it too much, assuming they don't clear and groom any runs (sacriledge!), but where do they put the bottom station? They'd have to put it above the lower bowl section surely, it just gets steeper and steeper in to the creek down there

    And none of the proposed Ramshead 2.0 lift lines really make sense to me - up the Funnelweb ridge and down the other side? That's a lot of work. I don't see National Parks very comfortable with altering the current landscape that much.

    If it was me, I'd just extend the current Ramshead lift line, with a detatchable mid station at Tower 10. If it's too windy for Kosci Express honestly it's too windy for beginners in the basin as well.
     
  9. sbm

    sbm One of Us

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    Actually, new proposal. Align Ramshead 2.0 ever so slightly RIGHT of the current line and extend it, so it finishes at the tippy top of Karels hill and eliminates the complaining. It lines up really nicely actually!

    As for mid stations, por que no los dos? I want Basin AND Tower 10 now and both detachable.
     
  10. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The plan is for a Tbar in GCB, that might give some clues to the chair.
     
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  11. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Karels tbar should be extended.
     
  12. cin

    cin Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    with a dog leg to the left as you reach the top.
     
  13. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not a proper PITA. I can't understand what thought processes were going on when they decided "Let's build a T-bar MOST of the way up to the top of the resort but make people climb up the last bit, and let's put the bottom station so high that people have to go uphill to get to it" - that's just daft. Was lift cable so expensive that they saved a few grand by making it 20 metres shorter?

    I agree the new lift should finish at the top of Karels but higher up so it's all downhill to get to the runs it accesses.

    It should have a midstation somewhere near the bottom of Basin T, maybe at the same altitude so each can be accessed from the other. While we were the queue there last week they closed the T for 5 minutes to replace a wheel. They told us if they ran the T till it seized it would be an hour's wait, and that would be a bloody disaster for anyone who wasn't up to skiing out on a black run because you're pretty much stuck there. It would even provide a download option for newbies in the Basin who weren't up to coming out via Supertrail. When it got windy they could turn the chairs around there rather than going all the way to the top. And in nice weather the Basin/Karels runs off the chair would provide an alternative to Merritts for the punters.

    There's a case for putting the base at tower 10 rather than at Valley Terminal. It's an easy ski out from there, it's accessible from supertrail and the other runs serviced by the new lift, and it would take some traffic off the crowded and slushy bottom part of supertrail. Plus there's not that much room at the base for another detachable chair.

    It would certainly make the basin area more accessible as well as improving access to the more advanced terrain. It would put more people into that part of the resort, reducing crowds elsewhere.
     
  14. sbm

    sbm One of Us

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    Yeah I agree it is a PITA. It always seems to be longer than you remember, and I saw plenty of people walking yesterday.

    But honestly I think they did the t-bar line as well as they could up that hill. Look at the geograhy. They couldn't go to the top further left, because of the rock outcrops. They couldn't extend it any further, because you'd start going downhill again over the other side! If there's any fault its the very rocky rolling ridges of the Ramsheads.

    BTW my top to bottom yesterday was nowhere near non-stop...:whistle:
     
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  15. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    True. If they ran it up on a different line, maybe starting closer to the top of Basin, and put a kink in it they could've gotten further up though.

    I'm 61 and need the odd oxygen break. My daughter (15) got jack of this and demanded I do a top-to-bottom, non stop. We chose Waimea -> Valley View -> Dream Run -> Lower High Noon -> Friday Flat because I always told her it's one of my favourites. I managed to plant my pole on the top step of Thredbo Sports (where the snow finished) without having to stop, though I must admit I was going _very_ slowly a few times! The short turns on the narrow and icy part of Dream Run were real killers!

    We also did Waimea -> Powder Bowl -> Dream Run but there were a few stops along the way for that one!
     
  16. cin

    cin Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Basin could do with some serious work.
    So much potential wasted by poorly located lifts.
     
  17. Scoober

    Scoober One of Us

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    I thought Thredbo's Lease line was literally 10 metres further up from the top station of Karels. Anyone wish to clarify?
     
  18. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    cant they just be sneaky and move the line?
     
  19. sbm

    sbm One of Us

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    Well Karels is STILL marked incorrectly on the latest department of lands topographic maps...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    IMO the most pressing problem for Thredbo as far as lifts are concerned is the Friday Flat/Easy Rider bottleneck. Even out of school holidays when most of the mountain is empty, the Easy Rider queue is an ordeal for anyone stuck on Friday Flat, particularly since KT insists on running all lessons out of there. The second main problem is the poor access to the top of the mountain.
    My solution: Take the quad, add a few towers and put it up Ramshead to the top of Karels. Buy a new eight-seater and put in on Friday Flat. Two problems solved for the price of one lift!
     
  21. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    8 seater too much for Friday Flat.
    Get outa there quick and up to Merritt's.

    They've tried to improve things with the new snow runner off to the RHS of the ticket office for rank beginners and bubbies. And the addition of the snow runner at the top of the EDI lift to get people to the left hand side down what used to be the run in from High Noon.

    I don't think too much more can be done there. But the Basin...change the drag lift to a quad - way more capacity there.
     
  22. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wind hold!

    It used to be the beginners area. Was interesting in a good blow.
     
  23. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ôh yeah... Should've thought about the wind. It can blow a gale up there!
     
  24. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Friday Flat can't handle any more punters - increasing the lift capacity (or speed) would cause carnage.

    Due to wind they have to keep basin and karels T-bars. If the new lift goes high enough with a midstation in the right place then it'll provide the extra capacity they need up there. It won't if there aren't enough people getting off at the bottom of the basin though, so maybe improved access (or at least better signposting) from there into Cannonball/Kareela/mid-Funnelweb might encourage more punters to unload there.
     
  25. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    i really don't see why the new lift should start from the base of the mountain. WOuld make much more sense if it started from old Tower 10 to save you from the monotiny of always having to ski that last flat and boring kilometer from Tower 10 to the reload. Lets face it, if you are into true blue and the bluff, little beauty you are not skiing that last bit for any other reason than you have to.
     
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  26. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pretty accurate assessment :thumbs:
    It'd be great not getting water in my boots.
     
  27. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    would faster lifts cause more problems, if the total number of punters are the same?

    perhaps more problems at the top rather than at the bottom
     
  28. incogski

    incogski One of Us

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    Well there'd be more people on the slope than in the line I guess
     
  29. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    On really busy days:
    Faster lift = More people in the lift queue.
    Slow lift = More people in the air.
    People on the slope are about the same.
     
  30. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    On a bad day about a quarter of the punters on friday flat are in the queue at the bottom and maybe another 10% of them are on the lift. If they run the lift faster, the same number will be on the lift at any point in time, but the queue at the bottom will be shorter because more people are being taken back up every minute. So if the same number are on the chair and less are in the queue at the bottom, there must be more people sliding down the hill. And that hill is already about as busy as you'd want it to be.

    I agree it would be carnage up top with more people spilling into an already-crowded unload area.
     
  31. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I prefer the idea of a Tower 10 base station but can see how from the resorts business point of view a lift from the bottom would work. If a mid station is located near bottom of basin (totally detachable for operation up to mid in wind) then intermediates can access the upper lift and mooted new t bar for GCBs gentler higher terrain in one easy lift ride. That's a big expanse of cruisey terrain (but with some very nice steeper faces for when the wind is blowing it in) accessed with just two new lifts in a good snow holding area all above 1800m, helping to solve one of Thredbo's biggest problems. Lift from Valley terminal to top of Karel's would also have enormous potential as summer draw card.

    I also like the idea of a lift starting from High Noons mid point (just before the steep bits at 1600m) going to top of Antons (1950m). Run green cat track from bottom of Sponars (at 1700m) to bottom of new lift, green cat track from Merrits area (1700m) to bottom of new lift as well, then you have all terrain of Antons (including Albert's Amble/Lenny's leap extension below base of t-bar), Michaels Mistake including nice bowl below cat track, The Glades and Wiamea into Ballroom skiable off one upper mtn lift. Valley View summer and winter grooming could be extended up slope to Merrits traverse and down (into Pegasus until it reaches new cat track from Merrits) to form nice new long intermediate run, perhaps do the same under the Gunbarell Chair lift line to ensure blue cruisers are catered for. I know it sacrifices some off piste terrain but they need some more blue groomer offerings on that side of mtn and you would still have the Glades, Michaels Mistake, Waimea and Antons off piste. Perhaps do some avi control and bring Stanley's in bounds as it's west side is in the lease and often skied anyway, with a tricky GCB style traverse back to base of Easy Rider t-bar to keep the masses out. This would ensure decent off piste still offered on this side of mtn and expanded intermediate offerings, all above 1600m in an area already strongly serviced by snowmaking. Also whack a lift up from base of Friday Flat direct to Merrits base area to take strain off Friday Flat and Gunbarrell chairs in peak periods (and might also allow easy repeat skiing on Schuss and Dream Run when the snow is good).

    So many options on Thredbo's upper two thirds, potential not currently fully realised IMO due to poor lift layout centred on top to bottom skiing leading to unpleasant experiences in crowded, warm slushy skied out valley slopes.
     
  32. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    It has to be a tower 10 base for the new lift.
     
  33. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    I should have said more clearly when I wrote the above. When I say faster lift I meant fast as in detachable compared to slow of normal fixed grip which usually have the same uphill capacity.
     
  34. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    Waimea is nice, but it's so hard to access for such a short slide.
     
  35. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's why its nice.
     
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  36. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Agree Dos but don't forget the lift as I've suggested it would then allow you to move on from Waimea to ski Ballroom or Valley View into Pegasus or The Glades skiers left of Gunbarrell chair before returning to lifts base.
     
  37. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    Unless you're on unwaxed snowboard when snow is less than ideal...
    :headbang:
     
  38. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    The T section where Pegasus meets the Glades is about 40-50m higher than your proposed lift base station. I'm not sure if a cat track can be cut across from the T section to your station as there is a deep creek in between.

    Too give an idea, the intersection where Dream Run crosses Gunbarrel is about 130m higher than where it meets High Noon.

    I still hate Cruiser Traverse.
     
  39. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Buller is better
     
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  40. incogski

    incogski One of Us

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    Go away troll
     
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  41. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe - when it's got snow.
     
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  42. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    With freshly waxed skis and anything more than a gentle tailwind you can get there without pushing or skating.
     
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  43. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    Knew someone would come up with waxing so I added the following bit for better argument. ;)

     
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  44. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's great coming off the top of Antons, pointing the skis straight to build as much speed as possible and having the wind blow you all the way across to Waimea. It works better if you hold your arms out sideways to catch more wind.

    It's a bugger with a headwind though...
     
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  45. Dos

    Dos One of Us

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    First year I did that I even unzipped my jacket and spread it out as a sail. Lotsa fun! ROFL
     
  46. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  47. Ben Zeenees

    Ben Zeenees One of Us

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    What terrain will the new lift provide access to? That's the key issue. Unless a lot of new runs are created, the top of Funnelweb doesn't provide many options. Even the top of Karel's ( hopefully a bit higher to avoid the push/scate ) doesn't give access to much for the average punter. Unless a whole lot of new runs are created. And where is the snow? This year we had quite good snow, but its quite bare up high because of the wind. So let's not worry where the lift will start. Its the end that counts!
     
  48. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    My impression of the info provided on the proposed lift is that it is as much about providing access to cruising terrain on upper mtn as it is about steeper terrain further down. IF a mid station is included at base of the Basin than all the terrain off Karels-Basin will be accessible with one chairlift ride, a far superior arrangement than riding two poxy t-bars to ride fairly short runs. (yes I know wind - the t-bars will still be there as back up one assumes). Combine this with what we keep hearing about t-bar lift on the gentler upper slopes of Golf Course Bowl, which presumably will see a few new blue groomers in an area that currently has none and you have a better offering for punters on that side of mountain. To me (if a mid station is included at the basin) it's about making better use of what terrain is already there rather than providing large amounts of new runs. Personally I think the terrain options up there are good for the punter, nice wide open cruisey runs, but I agree about the wind causing problems in some areas.
     
  49. sbm

    sbm One of Us

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    Something a bit different for this thread, on the summer expansion side. As well as the MTB infrastructure, Thredbo has something no other resort in Aus really has - a great (undammed) whitewater river right on its doorstep.

    Now I'm dreaming here, but I reckon they could upgrade the snowmaking pond to hold more water, and allow for timed water releases in spring, to guarantee boatable flows eg on weekends. If you did it right you might even be able to create a standing wave just downstream of the bridge and have a whitewater park with river surfing etc.

    And just on the other side of Dead Horse Gap at Tom Groggin you have the upper Murray/Indi with absolutely classic whitewater and a history of rafting.

    Vail has a whitewater park in the village apparently and Whistler also promotes river activities in summer, why not Thredders?

    It'd be great in September. Stinking hot spring day with NW hairdryer blowing? No worries, that means the river's up, ski in the morning then rent kayaks (cheap with the 365) and go do an afternoon paddle down to Ngario.
     
  50. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, the second best spawn run fishery in the country would be stoked!