Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

sbm_

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Perhaps they're including a chunk of earthworks to try and improve the top, and do something for the final steep pitch on the track and the Boundary Rider return run under the bullwheel.
 

skinavy

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No - I wont say the name as it could be a couple of different companies i.e I know the name as a US company, their is an unrelated company herein Australia so could be either.
Sea World (only amusement park I can think of that has an unrelated company in the US)
 

DPS Driver

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The Pusher - is actually the puller.
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DPS Driver

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DA to replace Easy Rider just got approved. I didn't realise T-Bars cost so much
Screenshot_20210910-130323_Drive.jpg
There's a bit involved in a new lift installation. Even for a T Bar.

All new towers, new base building, new top, new cables, T's etc. Plus surveying, earth works, electrical, data, cabling, gates, IT hardware and software, integration, haulage from base to site, travel, accom, commissioning, installation, general labour, freight & tax.

There'll be plenty I missed but it all adds up.
 

Chookfooter

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There's a bit involved in a new lift installation. Even for a T Bar.

All new towers, new base building, new top, new cables, T's etc. Plus surveying, earth works, electrical, data, cabling, gates, IT hardware and software, integration, haulage from base to site, travel, accom, commissioning, installation, general labour, freight & tax.

There'll be plenty I missed but it all adds up.
The towers will probably be put in place with a chopper, and they aren't cheap. Probably need something bigger than the local ones too, more $$$$$$.
 
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snowgum

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DA to replace Easy Rider just got approved. I didn't realise T-Bars cost so much
Screenshot_20210910-130323_Drive.jpg
Despite two restricted seasons, I note Thredbo’s owners are far from broke?

Good on them anyway - the big modernisation been such a long time coming. Strolling into the 21 century? :whistle:
 
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Alleve

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Despite two restricted seasons, I note Thredbo’s owners are far from broke?

Good on them anyway - the big modernisation been such a long time coming. Strolling into the 21 century? :whistle:
Merritts 8-MGD = $15M
Easy Rider T-Bar = $2M
- so $17M has been spent so far -
Snowgums 6-CLD = ~$20M
Gunbarrel 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Cruiser 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Kosciuszko 6-CLD = ~$20M

By the end of this they could've spent some $97M just on lifts. Add in the restaurant ($5M), dream run ($100K), plus the carparks and other snowmaking upgrades on top
 

Telezacski

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Merritts 8-MGD = $15M
Easy Rider T-Bar = $2M
- so $17M has been spent so far -
Snowgums 6-CLD = ~$20M
Gunbarrel 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Cruiser 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Kosciuszko 6-CLD = ~$20M

By the end of this they could've spent some $97M just on lifts. Add in the restaurant ($5M), dream run ($100K), plus the carparks and other snowmaking upgrades on top
At one stage the board had set aside 100mil for upgrades but pretty’s sure this money is gone.

I believe Event sold $200 odd mil in property recently with a few to go. This could replace the pot
 
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snowgum

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Merritts 8-MGD = $15M
Easy Rider T-Bar = $2M
- so $17M has been spent so far -
Snowgums 6-CLD = ~$20M
Gunbarrel 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Cruiser 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Kosciuszko 6-CLD = ~$20M

By the end of this they could've spent some $97M just on lifts. Add in the restaurant ($5M), dream run ($100K), plus the carparks and other snowmaking upgrades on top

So playing the long game?

To even thinking of paying for all this, simple maths suggest KT have either been sitting on a big cash reserve for many years, or intend to be, or intend to go into debt for a decade? I’m no economist nor accountant - clearly!

So were othe resorts bagging the cash pre Covid or are they simply not taking on big debt like KT?
 
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Alleve

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So playing the long game?

To even thinking of paying for all this, simple maths suggest KT have either been sitting on a big cash reserve for many years, or intend to be, or intend to go into debt for a decade? I’m no economist nor accountant - clearly!

So were othe resorts bagging the cash pre Covid or are they simply not taking on big debt like KT?
Thredbo does bring in some $20-25M a year in profit.

I'm partly surprised that they're still allowed by Event to go ahead with all this past the lift replacements that are necessary (ie just Merritts). Event has lost a massive amount of money due to Covid, so they idea that they'd spent this much on Thredbo before they've even recovered comes as a surprise. On the other hand, Thredbo has been by far their most consistent asset this whole time, somehow increasing its profit during Covid (because of the growing summer season), so it makes sense Event would invest more in it.

It's less that other resorts have been bagging the cash and more that they don't tend to pursue wave developments like KT does (wave 1 being 1988-1994, wave 2 being 2020-). Other resorts seem to like spreading their developments out.

Since the last time Thredbo put in a lift (Cruiser 4-CLD / 1994),
Perisher put in 4 lifts (one 8-CLD, three 4-CLFs)
Buller put in 3 lifts (twp 6-CLDs, one 4-CLF)
Falls put in 4 lifts (one 4-CLD, three 4-CLFs)
Hotham put in 3 lifts (three 4-CLFs, counting Keogh's and Orchard as one lift)
 
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AWJ

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So playing the long game?

To even thinking of paying for all this, simple maths suggest KT have either been sitting on a big cash reserve for many years, or intend to be, or intend to go into debt for a decade? I’m no economist nor accountant - clearly!

So were othe resorts bagging the cash pre Covid or are they simply not taking on big debt like KT?
KT earns a lot of moolah - the below is a quick summary of Thredbo's annual profit going back to the 2003 financial year:

1631337891691.png


$290m profit in 19 years ($93m in the last 4 financial years) is pretty decent. Particularly when you consider the last 2 financial years have been wrecked by Covid
 

sastrugi

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Thredbo does bring in some $20-25M a year in profit.

I'm partly surprised that they're still allowed by Event to go ahead with all this past the lift replacements that are necessary (ie just Merritts). Event has lost a massive amount of money due to Covid, so they idea that they'd spent this much on Thredbo before they've even recovered comes as a surprise. On the other hand, Thredbo has been by far their most consistent asset this whole time, somehow increasing its profit during Covid (because of the growing summer season), so it makes sense Event would invest more in it.

It's less that other resorts have been bagging the cash and more that they don't tend to pursue wave developments like KT does (wave 1 being 1988-1994, wave 2 being 2020-). Other resorts seem to like spreading their developments out.

Since the last time Thredbo put in a lift (Cruiser 4-CLD / 1994),
Perisher put in 4 lifts (one 8-CLD, three 4-CLFs)
Buller put in 3 lifts (twp 6-CLDs, one 4-CLF)
Falls put in 4 lifts (one 4-CLD, three 4-CLFs)
Hotham put in 3 lifts (three 4-CLFs, counting Keogh's and Orchard as one lift)
I can't currently speak for Perisher or Falls, but Hotham and Buller cut costs to their detriment by not putting in high speed lifts. Riding lifts is so bloody cold and slow in Victoria, we really take the high speeds for granted in Thredbo.
 

Ramshead

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This could be a thread in its own right, but…

Fixed-grip chairlifts in the Australian ski fields that should be fast detachables:

Maybe Snowgums at Thredbo depending on how many mid stations the redeveloped chair has

Mt Perisher chair/s
Ridge chair at Blue Cow
Freedom at Guthega

Heavenly at Hotham

Bull Run at Buller now that Standard has snowmaking

Not sure about Falls creek, too long since I skied there

Add yours!
 
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Alleve

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I can't currently speak for Perisher or Falls, but Hotham and Buller cut costs to their detriment by not putting in high speed lifts. Riding lifts is so bloody cold and slow in Victoria, we really take the high speeds for granted in Thredbo.
NSW currently has 7, soon to be 9 high speed lifts, whereas Vic only has 5. Hotham needs to catch up!


Thredbo has 4, soon to be 5 high speed lifts:
- Gunbarrel, 1988 Quad
- Kosciuszko, 1990 Quad Chondola
- Cruiser, 1994 Quad
- Merritts, 2020 Eight Gondola
- Snowgums, Planned 2023? Six Chair

Perisher has 3, soon to be 4 high speed lifts:
- Perisher Express, 1986 Quad
- Pleasant Valley, 1987 Quad
- Village, 2003 Eight Chair
- Mt Perisher, Planned 2023? Six Chair

Buller has 3 high speed lifts:
- Northside, 1986 Quad Chondola
- ABOM, 2008 Six Chair
- Bourke St., 2019 Six Chair
They also used to have the Blue Bullets, two 1984 Quads

Falls has 2 high speed lifts:
- Falls Express, 1986 Quad
- Eagle, 2018 Quad

Hotham has none.
 
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Alleve

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This could be a thread in its own right, but…

Fixed-grip chairlifts in the Australian ski fields that should be fast detachables:

Maybe Snowgums at Thredbo depending on how many mid stations the redeveloped chair has

Mt Perisher chair/s
Ridge chair at Blue Cow
Freedom at Guthega

Heavenly at Hotham

Bull Run at Buller now that Standard has snowmaking

Not sure about Falls creek, too long since I skied there

Add yours!
I'd be surprised if it isn't already a thread. Snowgums is the second longest lift in Aus, it needs to be a detachable. IMO any new lift in Thredbo needs to be, with the exception of EDI
 

sastrugi

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NSW currently has 7, soon to be 9 high speed lifts, whereas Vic only has 5. Hotham needs to catch up!


Thredbo has 4, soon to be 5 high speed lifts:
- Gunbarrel, 1988 Quad
- Kosciuszko, 1990 Quad Chondola
- Cruiser, 1994 Quad
- Merritts, 2020 Eight Gondola
- Snowgums, Planned 2023? Six Chair

Perisher has 3, soon to be 4 high speed lifts:
- Perisher Express, 1986 Quad
- Pleasant Valley, 1987 Quad
- Village, 2003 Eight Chair
- Mt Perisher, Planned 2023? Six Chair

Buller has 3 high speed lifts:
- Northside, 1986 Quad Chondola
- ABOM, 2008 Six Chair
- Bourke St., 2019 Six Chair
They also used to have the Blue Bullets, two 1984 Quads

Falls has 2 high speed lifts:
- Falls Express, 1986 Quad
- Eagle, 2018 Quad

Hotham has none.
Pretty sure Hotham has one... the one from the bottom getting you back up to the road at the end of the day. Super comfy padded seats. Buller runs their 2019 6 chair the speed of Slowgums!
 

skimax

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Add wombat to list of crying out to be detachables alongside heavenly ( already mentioned ) . Village ( but it needs an alternative trail down besides punter alley. Anyone no object get snow making on international ( lower) and replace the poma with a chair up to the summit .
 

fenrir

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I'm partly surprised that they're still allowed by Event to go ahead with all this past the lift replacements that are necessary (ie just Merritts).
They need to address deathbarrel - it's another ardent leisure situation waiting to happen.
 
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Timmossy

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Add wombat to list of crying out to be detachables alongside heavenly ( already mentioned ) . Village ( but it needs an alternative trail down besides punter alley. Anyone no object get snow making on international ( lower) and replace the poma with a chair up to the summit .
Heavenly typically moves at a decent pace most of the year apart from school holidays etc. when there’s a lot of kids. Detachable will just lead to a bigger line as there’s less bums on the seats, and I’m nostalgic about that Diesel engine roaring away.

Wombat definitely needs to be a detachable. It’s just so long…….problem with all those south side lifts is the 100-200m of flat at the top.
 
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Alleve

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Heavenly typically moves at a decent pace most of the year apart from school holidays etc. when there’s a lot of kids. Detachable will just lead to a bigger line as there’s less bums on the seats, and I’m nostalgic about that Diesel engine roaring away.

Wombat definitely needs to be a detachable. It’s just so long…….problem with all those south side lifts is the 100-200m of flat at the top.
Its about 150m longer than Merritts, 200m shorter than the Gunbarrel iirc
 

snowgum

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Its about 150m longer than Merritts, 200m shorter than the Gunbarrel iirc
Re Hotham Village: it gets quite a few first aid (stretcher) responses on busy weekend days. I would have a detachable would be far superior for managing - especially a six pack.

I’d imagine Vail would argue for the few times this happens, punters can just be patient?

Leaving aside HV - which needs to be a 6er for peak periods, many times I’ve skied Hotham’s summit in poor weather (with/without partner and kids) wish for a High speed detachable to get me out of the weather. Pigs might fly too!

As noted elsewhere, so many chairs in Vic/Oz are hitting the 30-35 year mark, with little public sign of a real replaceable timeline?

A very interesting next decade or so, especially with Covid slowing down Infrastucture upgrades….
 
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Loose Binding

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Merritts 8-MGD = $15M
Easy Rider T-Bar = $2M
- so $17M has been spent so far -
Snowgums 6-CLD = ~$20M
Gunbarrel 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Cruiser 6-CLD = ~$15-20M
Kosciuszko 6-CLD = ~$20M

By the end of this they could've spent some $97M just on lifts. Add in the restaurant ($5M), dream run ($100K), plus the carparks and other snowmaking upgrades on top
Wonder if they ever go to competitive tender for lift infrastructure. For this type of spend you'd think they would but perhaps not as you never see anything but Dopp at KT, Perisher, Buller or Selwyn. Outside tourist rides such as Cairns and Taronga Zoo, Falls / Hotham and NZ resorts seem to be the only ones happy to mix it up with another manufacturers.
 

Onlybackscratchers

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Wonder if they ever go to competitive tender for lift infrastructure. For this type of spend you'd think they would but perhaps not as you never see anything but Dopp at KT, Perisher, Buller or Selwyn. Outside tourist rides such as Cairns and Taronga Zoo, Falls / Hotham and NZ resorts seem to be the only ones happy to mix it up with another manufacturers.
Buller haven't touched Leitner/Poma since they installed the Howqua Quad many moons ago in 84.
Hotham is all Doppelmeyer except Village in 93 and Roadrunner in 95.
However Falls haven't installed a Doppelmeyer chair since Ruined Castle in 95, Towers 1999 is by Garaventa whilst Drovers 2004 and Eagle 2018 are both by Leitner/Poma. Gully chair is Poma as well IIRC.
 

snowgum

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Buller haven't touched Leitner/Poma since they installed the Howqua Quad many moons ago in 84.
Hotham is all Doppelmeyer except Village in 93 and Roadrunner in 95.
However Falls haven't installed a Doppelmeyer chair since Ruined Castle in 95, Towers 1999 is by Garaventa whilst Drovers 2004 and Eagle 2018 are both by Leitner/Poma. Gully chair is Poma as well IIRC.
Have to say I love padded chairs, especially towards the end of a day. I like foot rests but being on the taller side, some rest don’t work so well for me.

I find the set width thing interesting too - too bad if you’re larger than average - Be it broad in shoulder or seat? Perhaps with Covid around this May be less of an issue?

One potentially good aspect about ongoing upgrades - it provides the chance for smaller-resort lift companies to grab an old 3 or 4 pack and install - BBaw is a good case in point.

Whether an old lift is viable at a small is another matter? Maintenance may be a huge issue?
 
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Onlybackscratchers

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Have to say I love padded chairs, especially towards the end of a day. I like foot rests but being on the taller side, some rest don’t work so well for me.

I find the set width thing interesting too - too bad if you’re larger than average - Be it broad in shoulder or seat? Perhaps with Covid around this May be less of an issue?

One potentially good aspect about ongoing upgrades - it provides the chance for smaller-resort lift companies to grab an old 3 or 4 pack and install - BBaw is a good case in point.

Whether an old lift is viable at a small is another matter? Maintenance may be a huge issue?
I don't think government run Baw Baw would do secondhand very well, the type of expertise needed just isn't there to make it viable. The more flexible privately owned Selwyn/Charlotte Pass might get some benefit however.


Isn't the problem of being large actually on the small person beside them getting squashed?
Just saying, as I'm a 169cm, under 60kg grommet. :p
 

fenrir

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Putting up a windshield on the Thredbo chairs would be amazing, especially on damp days.
 

Alleve

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Putting up a windshield on the Thredbo chairs would be amazing, especially on damp days.
It would also increase windhold. It wouldn't be viable anywhere other than EDI or Ramshead (if it ever happens)
I don't think government run Baw Baw would do secondhand very well, the type of expertise needed just isn't there to make it viable. The more flexible privately owned Selwyn/Charlotte Pass might get some benefit however.


Isn't the problem of being large actually on the small person beside them getting squashed?
Just saying, as I'm a 169cm, under 60kg grommet. :p
I'd hope Snowgums goes somewhere, or at least some part of it. 1980s Dopp lifts are pretty reliable
Wonder if they ever go to competitive tender for lift infrastructure. For this type of spend you'd think they would but perhaps not as you never see anything but Dopp at KT, Perisher, Buller or Selwyn. Outside tourist rides such as Cairns and Taronga Zoo, Falls / Hotham and NZ resorts seem to be the only ones happy to mix it up with another manufacturers.
I don't think they would, Doppelmayr dominates Aus apart from Falls (who seems to love Leitner Poma these days)
 

snowgum

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I don't think government run Baw Baw would do secondhand very well, the type of expertise needed just isn't there to make it viable. The more flexible privately owned Selwyn/Charlotte Pass might get some benefit however.


Isn't the problem of being large actually on the small person beside them getting squashed?
Just saying, as I'm a 169cm, under 60kg grommet. :p

Yes I tend to agree with you regarding BB’s expertise and aptitude for risk.

Yes size is all relative. I’m 190 cm, 110 kg (believe I hide my mass OK) -
- on a two-seater chair, we’d be average overall?

Actually, in Japan, two-seaters were quite comfy, width wise. Strangely, very few folks in Hakuba wanted to share a two-seater with me! ;):whistle:
 

snowgum

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It would also increase windhold. It wouldn't be viable anywhere other than EDI or Ramshead (if it ever happens)

I'd hope Snowgums goes somewhere, or at least some part of it. 1980s Dopp lifts are pretty reliable

I don't think they would, Doppelmayr dominates Aus apart from Falls (who seems to love Leitner Poma these days)
Slowgums? 500m+ of vertical - could slap it straight up the steep west side of Mt D (Dandenong) - align it with a firebreak - It would huge, 70-80% more vert than Arthur’s Seat. Meet up the top near Skyhigh. Impress the tourists! :whistle:
 

Billy_Buttons

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That wouldn't work at Thredbo.

Thredbo lifts* are required by health and safety standards to have a optional emergency exit out the front. :out:

*well one of them
Only one person got to enjoy the experience. The other, the chair decided to be empty going downhill. Maybe that 3ft rise on the tower has worked wonders.
 
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Onlybackscratchers

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Only one person got to enjoy the experience. The other, the chair decided to be empty going downhill. Maybe that 3ft rise on the tower has worked wonders.
We hope so. You would assume they have identified a engineering issue and resolved it. Doesn't explain what happened to the downloading chair however, unfortunately.

Edit: Seems like it is the same tower so hopefully the issue is resolved.
 

Alleve

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Slowgums? 500m+ of vertical - could slap it straight up the steep west side of Mt D (Dandenong) - align it with a firebreak - It would huge, 70-80% more vert than Arthur’s Seat. Meet up the top near Skyhigh. Impress the tourists! :whistle:
Put a new lift drive in down the bottom and Snowgums could go anywhere. I'd personally like to see it go up the Ramshead line
 
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Billy_Buttons

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We hope so. You would assume they have identified a engineering issue and resolved it. Doesn't explain what happened to the downloading chair however, unfortunately.
My guess it was the runner wheels on both sides dislodging the chair clamp on THAT particular tower.
 

Annabuzzy

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Put a new lift drive in down the bottom and Snowgums could go anywhere. I'd personally like to see it go up the Ramshead line
Or the old lift line at twin valleys for mainly self powered skiing

Wait no, have its base at tower 10 and have it run toward the top of Karels
 
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