Thredbo Development - bang a gong and get it ON!

BlueHue

One of Us
Ski Pass
Apr 17, 2003
3,782
4,326
363
47
South of Cooma
Gondola from Bullocks to Thredbo. Job done.
Except the biggest traffic and parking problems are before that and going up Kosci Rd so would only solve about a quarter of the problem.

High frequency cost/time competitive buses are still the go IMO but will require some real commitment up front to get right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fenrir

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
7,262
6,198
563
55
vic
:oops:Would require NPWS to change their charge model as currently actively discourages ride share and bus usage as they charge a per head fee for park access whereas private vehicles are charged per vehicle irrespective of the number of occupants.
Nuts Fozzie, Parks need to review their model. Sand do the maths! :oops:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Annabuzzy

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
17,986
14,198
813
Taungurung Country
There are no beginner T's in Thredbo.
That is super unfortunate, all beginners should learn how to use Ts whether they're on one plank or two. Qs are always at their worst with beginners trying to learn how to ride a T solo on a busy day. How did I learn to ride a T? I was taught, back when there were beginner T bars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: telecrag

lewis

One of Us
Jan 25, 2018
386
561
263
That is super unfortunate, all beginners should learn how to use Ts whether they're on one plank or two. Qs are always at their worst with beginners trying to learn how to ride a T solo on a busy day. How did I learn to ride a T? I was taught, back when there were beginner T bars.
The Basin is a good beginner T, easy walk back up to the Kosi if you fall off or just a traverse back across to the groomers if you don't want to walk. Only problem is the queue that's created if they don't give up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kash and Annabuzzy
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

fenrir

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 23, 2010
3,994
6,870
363
The Basin is a good beginner T, easy walk back up to the Kosi if you fall off or just a traverse back across to the groomers if you don't want to walk. Only problem is the queue that's created if they don't give up.
Baw Baw was a good place for beginners to learn tbars, and since the Maltese cross was "advanced" riders only some lifties had no issues with directing anyone who failed to load twice back up the hill to learn how to ride a T. ("Get the fcuk off my lift and come back when you can ride")
 
  • Like
Reactions: snowgum

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
35,273
56,846
1,063
Ive seen people skidoo'ed out of Basin when they just couldn't deal with it. If they cant ride Basin, its unlikely they would survive traversing across the hill back to ST, which they also likely cant handle.
 

Untele-whippet

beard stroker
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 2006
20,460
45,909
1,063
60
Burnt Downs, Blue Mtns, 1100M.
The Basin is a good beginner T, easy walk back up to the Kosi if you fall off or just a traverse back across to the groomers if you don't want to walk. Only problem is the queue that's created if they don't give up.
The very bottom take off area of the Basin T is a bit steep for beginners IMO
 

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
48,602
47,358
1,563
the sunny illawarra
Last edited:

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
48,602
47,358
1,563
the sunny illawarra
I've long forgotten the statistics, but you don't need to remove many cars in % terms to have a remarkable impact on traffic flow. For me, if you could remove even a few with busses we will be better off. Especially considering you are probably removing less experienced less prepared drivers etc
A bus is only as long in the traffic stream as two cars.
 

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
48,602
47,358
1,563
the sunny illawarra
Would require NPWS to change their charge model as currently actively discourages ride share and bus usage as they charge a per head fee for park access whereas private vehicles are charged per vehicle irrespective of the number of occupants.
The trial service last year was such an arrangement for the buses.
 

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
2,204
4,363
363
Cool thanks, will inform all the ski resorts currently using them that they should stop. I see everyone else has already raised the Remarks bus - that's exactly what I had in mind with my leading question.

There are some pretty easy solutions to the problems you've raised there.
Go for your life. My maths came from one of the resorts, I'm sure they would be interested in your easy solutions.
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
7,262
6,198
563
55
vic
A bus is only as long in the traffic stream as two cars.

The resorts, TfNSW, Parks, SM council and the various tourist boards should revisit this (famous?) image to see the fallacy in their vehicle-management plan.


Clearly, even shifting 10 or 15% traffic to PT will make quite a difference in peak periods, when the roads and car parks are bursting!

And if lifts companies could offer a VFM - half-day lift option, instead of an insulting joke! - considerable levels of local traffic could be shifted to outside the peak. How good would that be?
 

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
48,602
47,358
1,563
the sunny illawarra
The resorts, TfNSW, Parks, SM council and the various tourist boards should revisit this (famous?) image to see the fallacy in their vehicle-management plan.


Clearly, even shifting 10 or 15% traffic to PT will make quite a difference in peak periods, when the roads and car parks are bursting!

They have and did and are planning to again.

I dunno about ‘roads bursting’. Free flow traffic breaks down somewhere around 1,200 vehicles per hour per lane, and is stop-start above about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. I haven’t sat in that sort of traffic to Thredbo anyway, but that also might be the times I travel.

I have sat in that in the reverse from Thredbo, due to the intersection with Kozzie Rd.
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
17,986
14,198
813
Taungurung Country
Ive seen people skidoo'ed out of Basin when they just couldn't deal with it. If they cant ride Basin, its unlikely they would survive traversing across the hill back to ST, which they also likely cant handle.
I remember once, a long time ago, probs 90s. The entire bluff area was sheet ice, but the Basin was busy with reasonable snow. Then the lift broke down and the entire enormous queue had to traverse back across the face under the bluff as the runs were closed due to conditions. It was a mind boggling nightmare. People slipping on ice everywhere, and some took their skis off and tried to walk it and ended up bulleting down the hill. I would hope to never, ever see that carnage again.

The Basin is indeed a nice area for beginners, but not first timers. And everyone should know how to ride a T before they get up there.
 

Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
27,851
27,855
1,063
Sydney
I remember once, a long time ago, probs 90s. The entire bluff area was sheet ice, but the Basin was busy with reasonable snow. Then the lift broke down and the entire enormous queue had to traverse back across the face under the bluff as the runs were closed due to conditions. It was a mind boggling nightmare. People slipping on ice everywhere, and some took their skis off and tried to walk it and ended up bulleting down the hill. I would hope to never, ever see that carnage again.

The Basin is indeed a nice area for beginners, but not first timers. And everyone should know how to ride a T before they get up there.
Where do they learn to ride a t-bat before getting there? Not Friday Flat, not Merrits, and Anton’s and Sponars are worse to learn on.
 

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
7,262
6,198
563
55
vic
Where do they learn to ride a t-bat before getting there? Not Friday Flat, not Merrits, and Anton’s and Sponars are worse to learn on.
Looks like they’re duckshoved to Perisher or Charlotte.

So, Thredders leave it to other resorts to skill up their clientele? Very short-sighted!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: nezumi

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
7,262
6,198
563
55
vic
They have and did and are planning to again.

I dunno about ‘roads bursting’. Free flow traffic breaks down somewhere around 1,200 vehicles per hour per lane, and is stop-start above about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. I haven’t sat in that sort of traffic to Thredbo anyway, but that also might be the times I travel.

I have sat in that in the reverse from Thredbo, due to the intersection with Kozzie Rd.
I’m fortunate, I mainly use that intersection in summer. Those numbers suggest traffic lights are needed. The newish slip road can only do so much in the peak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: climberman

fenrir

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 23, 2010
3,994
6,870
363
EVERYONE should be taught to traverse at the very start of their time on snow.
If I remember from doing my level 1 when they were checkout out our skiing that's an "advanced drill" to ride across the face leaving a smooth track, and not something they teach below high intermediate. Seems weird because it was taught to me early on as a basic survival skill.
 

Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
27,851
27,855
1,063
Sydney
It should all be dealt with at FF
FF needed to expand and probably still needs to expand to do that well.

I imagine though that the cost of operating at FF is considerably greater than similar facilities at Merrits (if they existed) just because of the extra snowmaking demands. I’m sure there’s scope for that, and don‘t doubt the brains trust (ahem) at Thredbo have at least thought of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: telecrag

BlueHue

One of Us
Ski Pass
Apr 17, 2003
3,782
4,326
363
47
South of Cooma
They have and did and are planning to again.

I dunno about ‘roads bursting’. Free flow traffic breaks down somewhere around 1,200 vehicles per hour per lane, and is stop-start above about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. I haven’t sat in that sort of traffic to Thredbo anyway, but that also might be the times I travel.

I have sat in that in the reverse from Thredbo, due to the intersection with Kozzie Rd.
I have on way up to Thredbo but it is a rare event IME experience with combo of good snow/weather in peak season on weekends sort of deal ie some of 2019s bug dumps, it's usually before skitube or getting in/out of Jindabyne IME. Problem is those worst days traffic times were in the lead up to COVID ie upward trend. Without action it will get worse or at least not get better when numbers visiting the resorts plateau after recent surge.

You can build more car parks but that changes nothing traffic wise, might even make it worse. Gondolas and skitube extensions having very significant practical issues making them pretty much unviable. The only alternative is buses done well or shift a significant proportion of accom into KNP by expanding the villages - obviously option two has some serious draw backs.

I guess the resorts could all go 'premium' to manage the crowds and use a high margin lower volume model like Thredbo has. I wonder actually if that would put enough downward pressure on accom demand to significantly lower letting prices and balance out to some degree more expensive lift pass options.
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
17,986
14,198
813
Taungurung Country
It should all be dealt with at FF
I agree and was going to write this however... I would assume the thinking would be to not put people off t-bars for life down at FF... get them started properly then they can accomplish this when they get to the next level, at Merrits.
 

lewis

One of Us
Jan 25, 2018
386
561
263
They have and did and are planning to again.

I dunno about ‘roads bursting’. Free flow traffic breaks down somewhere around 1,200 vehicles per hour per lane, and is stop-start above about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. I haven’t sat in that sort of traffic to Thredbo anyway, but that also might be the times I travel.

I have sat in that in the reverse from Thredbo, due to the intersection with Kozzie Rd.
I took 2-3 hours from Jindabyne to Thredbo once. I assume that's more than those numbers because it wasn't really stop start, instead it was just stop. This was after 60cm overnight so not a common situation.
 

Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
27,851
27,855
1,063
Sydney
I agree and was going to write this however... I would assume the thinking would be to not put people off t-bars for life down at FF... get them started properly then they can accomplish this when they get to the next level, at Merrits.
I know a handful of modestly (very!) proficient snowboarders who just won’t do t-bars. Which is a shame, because to optimise Australian skiing (wind exposed, very windy) you need to use t-bars at higher elevations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kash

lewis

One of Us
Jan 25, 2018
386
561
263
I know a handful of modestly (very!) proficient snowboarders who just won’t do t-bars. Which is a shame, because to optimise Australian skiing (wind exposed, very windy) you need to use t-bars at higher elevations.
Any reason?
 

Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
27,851
27,855
1,063
Sydney
Any reason?
I think they just find it harder than they like.

Like I say, they’re good enough to get around most of the mountain, but not overly proficient. There’s lots of people who ski or board once a year who really aren’t into it that much. If it’s not convenient or it challenges them too much, they’re outta there!
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: lewis and sastrugi

VSG

Crayon Master
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jan 1, 1998
72,664
9,845
1,525
Port Macquarie NSW
www.tumblr.com
Penderlea Gap is an issue. Traffic wise. The bottle necks that form either side of it, combined with shade/black ice on occasions.... needs a good look. More passing lanes. Mind you, for three months of the year, at best?

penderlea gap.jpg
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
17,986
14,198
813
Taungurung Country
I think they just find it harder than they like.

Like I say, they’re good enough to get around most of the mountain, but not overly proficient. There’s lots of people who ski or board once a year who really aren’t into it that much. If it’s not convenient or it challenges them too much, they’re outta there!
And this is the EXACT argument for not specifically lifting GCB as well. If you can ski it, you can ski it and not need a lift dropping you at the top. If you can't get into it, you shouldn't be there. Lifting it will make it accessible to those who aren't capable of getting down it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Townsend
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass