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Tokyo warning: specific types of nightlife unsafe for travelers

Discussion in 'Japan' started by damian, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. biri_island_surf

    biri_island_surf Hard Yards

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    read my last post to sandy smitty , and u will start to understand more .
     
  2. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I might start a titty bar , in Hakuba , and promote it in this thread .

    The last Filipino bar shut .
     
  3. smitty484

    smitty484 Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    only is ski form members get free titties!!!
     
  4. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    It was opposite to Emu.

    Free titty for smitty.
     
  5. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    And Mr Biri, I respect that it is a fine line between forum participation and business promotion, however:

    1. I am a full time skier for 6 months a year, and will post on ski forums to talk about life in the mountains, from snow conditions to gear to ski town culture. It is my life.

    2. There is little point promoting here anyway as 94% of our revenue comes from non-Australians. And they book well before the first flakes fall. So to be fair, I am not promoting anything. There is no benefit (I have tried in the commercial section of this site before and still only 4% of revenue comes from Australia).

    None of that needed to be explained here, just I don't like being accused of being a spiv.
     
  6. biri_island_surf

    biri_island_surf Hard Yards

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    damian - steep deep peep [ new bar ] japan , this discussion was started by u about the problems encounted by kaos and girl friend in the red light district in tokyo .
    i tried to warn other travellers about other asian countries and the set up that fuels the japanese sex trade . sandy made a stupid comment , i pulled him up over it .
    u came out with a smart remark about me , i gave one back . end of story .
     
  7. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Yes, end of story, except for the part about having a sense of humour.

    And I certainly wouldn't have made that (admittedly cheeky) joke about your age had I been primarily interested in my reputation here and the benefit it would have for my business (reputation is, after all, everything). You'll find the ones most interested in promotion can be described as (a) never letting their guard down and knowingly saying silly things, (b) never saying anything 'negative', no matter how factual it may be. I fit neither category. So I accept you non-apology for accusing me of being a spiv.

    No free titty for you.
     
  8. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    "Over 150,000 non-Japanese women are in prostitution in Japan. According to National Police Agency records, out of 85 non-Japanese people arrested for prostitution offences in 2007, 37 (43.5%) were mainland Chinese and 13 (15.3%) were Thai , while Taiwanese and Koreans made up 12 (7.2%) each."

    So the numbers, if 150,000 is correct, and arrests is reasonably indicative of the proportion of sex workers:

    - 43.5% mainland Chinese = 65,000
    - 15.3% Thai = 23,000
    - 7.2% Taiwanese = 11,000
    - 7.2% Koreans = 11,000
    - 2.4% Filipinos = 3,600
    - 24.4% Others = 36,400

    So being such a small proportion, 50,000 could not be Filipino.
     
    #108 Sandy, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  9. Teisto

    Teisto One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I will be happy to. I just PM'd you the details / name to book the flight ticket in. I like to generally fly QF21 and now they are back to flying 747-400 on the route a ticket up the pointy end would be great [​IMG]

    I'll be happy to get the first round. [​IMG]
     
    #109 Teisto, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  10. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    From my experience, Sandy seems right. It just doesn't seem economical in a long term sense to employ foreigners for the sex trade. I am sure that there are some around, but that is more for the fetish side of things, and not the "bulk" of sex workers in Japan. For example, I was watching some Japanese porn with my wife a couple of nights ago in the hotel supplied video on demand. We had one hundred or so videos to choose from for about ten bucks. Hours upon hours of what appeared to be willing Japanese girls willing to felch, suck and screw their way for a couple of lousy bucks. In the whole economies of scale type scenario, it wouldn't be that more cheaper to source overseas for this type of product.

    Oh geeze, what I just said makes me feel quite sorry for the sex trade as a whole, not just the Japanese model which is only really a small slice of the global problem.
     
  11. Teisto

    Teisto One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    And sorry to hear Kaos about your experience. I spent a bit of time in Tokyo in 1999 working and a bit of time around Roppongi and still to the day the best meal I have ever had in Japan was in Roppongi. Yes the Africans were around back then but I was always with locals.
     
  12. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    But shouldn't you be flying Philippine Airlines???
    [​IMG]
     
    #112 Sandy, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  13. Teisto

    Teisto One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I'll fly any airline - I only want to go for the healthy debate .... skiing comes a distant second [​IMG]
     
    #113 Teisto, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  14. fattwins

    fattwins One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    somewhere between 2000 to 3000 Nigerians are in the country legally. Sandy I think you are being a bit naive if you think that the Japanese police even care to check on the rest.
     
  15. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    There's plenty of literature out there about corruption in the police force in Japan.
    Here's one as an example http://ssjj.oxfordjournals.org/content/6/1/19.short

    The police in Japan are incredibly powerful. There are few mechanisms in place to oversee their behaviour and as far as I know there's never been any commissions into their behaviour despite calls from lawyers and other groups for years . Power corrupts and there's certainly corruption in the Japanese police force, not unlike the incredible amount of corruption in politics here. The pollies and bureaucrats appear to get caught on a fairly frequent basis. There's no one to catch out the police though. They are a law unto themselves. If you think the Yakuza don't pay them off to turn a blind eye to certain things then you must live in la la land instead of the Japan I live in.
     
    #115 Go Native, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  16. kanazawan

    kanazawan First Runs

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    many of this "mainland Chinese" are actually ethnic Koreans from Manchuria(so-called Northeast Provinces of PRC).
    related to the ethnic composition of Yakuza, hostess bar owners, etc., especially so in korean areas such as Kabukicho-Okubo red-light district.
     
    #116 kanazawan, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  17. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Of course Japanese police are corrupt, just like most powerful people in Japan are corrupt at every scale of society. This is a nation where the people have almost no voice and power corrupts freely. And of course there are a lot of foreign girls being taken advantage of in the sex industry. Filipino girls apparently worked in the (now closed) local hostess bar of our rusty truck-stop town of 8000 people in the middle of nowhere. It is pervasive and common by most accounts.

    In many respects, there is nothing wonderful about Japan at all - it can be quite rotten. I think people hold it far too high regard because it is the thing to do.
     
  18. K@os

    K@os A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    what the **** is your problem and what are you on about? I havent posted anything on snowjapan, I havent even read whatever thread has been created over there. Do you enjoy rubbing my face in my own misfortune? It seems you do. Yeah I was stupid, but I hardly think anyone deserves to be abused and robbed just for being naive.

    To everyone else, thanks for the support, its been one hell of a rollercoaster and it isnt over yet and I appreciate the kind words and other experiences that ppl have come out with, it does help and believe me I'm doing a pretty good job of beating myself up over what has happened.

    Girlfriend is having nightmares and we are still trying to sort out police reports (much harder than it seems and the Japanese Embassy dont have the right information on who to speak to) and dealing with banks isnt easy either, though Savings and Loans seem a lot better to deal with so far than BankSA.
     
    #118 K@os, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  19. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Have a read of a recent book called "Tokyo Vice" by Jake Adelstein. I think you would enjoy it!!!!

    He was the first foreign born reporter hired by the Yomiuri Shinbun newspaper (not the English, Daily Yomiuri, but the REAL Japanese one). He was a crime reporter, and had to live partly in the pocket of the police to get his scoops, so he knew the way the police worked. He pulls no punches, and tells it just like is was.

    The opening line in the book, from a Yakuza to Adelstein, was:

    "Either erase the story, or we will erase you. And maybe your family. But we'll do them first, so you learn your lesson before you die."
     
    #119 Sandy, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  20. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I think he's talking about your tag at the bottom:
    "Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
    Let the Lord of Chaos rule"


    Anyway, let me know if you need some help at the Japan end....
     
    #120 Sandy, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  21. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    He is being smug by pointing out the irony in your signature line "Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
    Let the Lord of Chaos rule".

    His smugness is completely misplaced and poorly timed. Poor taste.

    Edit: Sandy beat me.
     
    #121 damian, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  22. K@os

    K@os A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    it followed FTs post about snowjapan, so I wasnt sure what he was on about. There have been several smug "hahaha serves your right" type comments from the one peron and I'm over it. I suppose I shouldnt let comments bother me from someone who names themselves after a toilet, but I'm easily wound up at the moment
     
  23. fattwins

    fattwins One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time

    Kaos I thought the Snow Japan post would go over better I was wrong sorry.
    Still I think the story is better left out there for others to read.
     
    #123 fattwins, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  24. kanazawan

    kanazawan First Runs

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Quite. That's probably why they tend to turn blind eyes to some foreign elements' dubious activities/existence.
     
    #124 kanazawan, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  25. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    We get it. The Japanese can do no wrong, it is all the foreigners.
     
  26. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    On another forum I contribute to (not a ski forum but one devoted purely to Japan stuff) I have come across the weeaboo phenomenon. Until quite recently I had no idea it existed. There is this large group of people around the world who truly believe that Japan is some sort of nirvana. Everything here is supposedly perfect and their greatest goal in life is to one day live here. Supposedly everything they hate about their current lives would be fixed if only they could move here. Their naivete about what this country is really like is astounding. Try telling these people some of the realities of living here and they get really quite angry. Japan is a fantastic place to live, no doubt about it, but it is really a very long way from being a perfect society!
     
  27. K@os

    K@os A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Yep my sig and forum name come from a nerdy book series, I'm not changing it just because some smartass sees the irony.

    I only just read the thread, thanks for posting. Some ppl will always have the attitude that responsibility for such crimes rests on those who make the silly mistake and are place themselves in danger. The majority of ppl I have spoken to though seem to realise that people will always make mistakes unless the dangers are pointed out and the responsibility rests with the scum who take advanatge of naivety.

    I certainly dont come from a big city, I grew up in a small country town 60km from Adelaide. I've had next to no dealings with any dodgyiness in my life. I have never been robbed, beaten or drugged. The OS travel I have done has always been to ski areas with groups of people, except 3 days on my own in NYC and I didnt go out much at night except to eat. I'm not sure how I was supposed to know what to look out for and there are obviously thousands of people each year who also do not have the experience to recognise a dodgey offer on the street. I do now, hopefully others who read the thread will remember the story and be wary too.

    Japan is ulimately a safe place, some ppl on the snowjapan forums seem to think that by telling this story, we are saying it is not safe and they then try to play down the issue. The issue is not a storm in a teacup, it happens to a lot of ppl. I think by recognising the issue and telling ppl about it, Japan will be even safer and the risks can be mitigated. As others have said, drink spiking has happened in places outside of the red light and nightclub districts as well....it happens all over the world. I've learnt my lesson on not what to do and others have come out and said they have learnt something too, so its a discussion worth having
     
    #127 K@os, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  28. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Mr Miyagi has a lot to answer for
     
    #128 MisterMxyzptlk, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  29. Toto Warmlet

    Toto Warmlet One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    sorry kaos, I withdrew those comments made late at night when the state of the world at large appeared very gloomy.
    I just had the superstitious feeling that you should change that tag now, like it seems to have tempted fate, nothing smug about it.
    damian's header is too generalist, that was my complaint
    again I apologise for any further pain caused, that was certainly not my intention.
     
  30. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Care to suggest a new thread title whilst keeping it short?

    Relevant key wards:

    Tokyo, nightlife, warning, unsafe, travelers.

    Note that the thread pretty much opens with an explanation that Tokyo is safe, Roppongi and Shinjuku are safe. However there are pockets that seem to be repeatedly snaring travelers which are not safe.

    Obviously it applies to all tourists who pass through Tokyo looking for a night out, however I heard of visitors to Hakuba falling into the trap 4 seasons ago and they would have had much better memories of their time here had not their last memory of Japan been a black thug forcing them to withdraw cash whilst they could hardly stop themselves from vomiting after drinking with some girls in a 'bar'. It has not gotten any better and word needs to spread (although I am sure there are some who honestly think it would be bad for ski industry business to get the word out that some bars are best avoided in Tokyo)
     
  31. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I agree with what you say here.

    But I also think that the vast majority of foreigners living in Japan are odd to begin with and mostly have difficulties fitting in back home, where ever that was. They come here and create a false reality in a micro bubble with the rest of Japan happening around them. And I am no different, so I feel no shame in saying the strangest people I have ever met have been those who have settled in Japan. We are 95% misfits. I ended up here as the path of least resistance - hardly a way to go through life.
     
    #131 damian, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  32. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Pretty well put there damian.
     
    #132 Vermillion, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  33. K@os

    K@os A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    [​IMG] at the thread title change.

    as we have discovered from other people's tales, the issue is drink spiking and it doesnt always occur in Shinjuku or Roppongi. A general warning about drink spiking and some specific details about what to look out for is the aim of this thread and the title was fine how it was. Saying 'specific types' of nightlife is unsafe may be 90% true, but as we've heard, drink spiking can also occur in places where you may feel you are 100% safe, though much more unlikely, the possibility is there. Always watch you back, your drinks and your friends.....this should be the general advice, along with more specific advice of not following anyone (african or otherwise) to a club and only visiting well advertised bars and dont go anywhere off the main drag in places like shinjuku or roppongi.

    I understand why people dont want others to think that all nightlife in Tokyo is dangerous, but playing down the dangers doesnt help mitigate the risks either
     
    #133 K@os, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  34. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Per another post in this thread, I'd like to know at which popular resort in Japan the drinks were spiked at. It was either Niseko or Hakuba. I can guess based on silence.
     
  35. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Yeah I have met quite a number of weirdos over here, especially amongst the english teaching crowd! Niseko is a little different though in that most are here because of a love of the outdoors (except for some of the developers and real estate guys who are here to make money but I mostly stay away from them). And as everyone points out Niseko is not 'real' Japan. And it's one of the reasons I like it so much. Don't think I'd want to live in 'real' Japan. I never came to live here because I had an interest in the culture, language, anime or manga or whatever. I just wanted a more relaxed, slower and outdoors based lifestyle and I really love powder snow! More time to do the things I really love like skiing, hiking, etc. And on the whole I achieved that although I have worked a little harder and more than I really would have liked. I'm definitely going to miss living here. I think it will be harder to live such a relaxed and stressfree lifestyle in Australia.
     
  36. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I've never heard of it happening up here but then I don't hang out in Hirafu much in winter and I'm sure plenty of things go on that I don't hear about.
     
    #136 Go Native, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  37. Toto Warmlet

    Toto Warmlet One of Us

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    now damain is taking the p*ss

    tokyo nightlife warning, tourist drink spiking scam

    would be specific, or maybe it happens by day too?
     
  38. damian

    damian A Local

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    It isn't always drink spiking.
     
  39. malibu

    malibu Hard Yards

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    Kaos - thanks for your honesty and I hope this ugly incident is erased from both your consciences by nice things soon.

    I could start a Gold Coast drink spiking danger thread too but that'd be stating the obvious. ( an acquaintance was raped in the Jupiters Casino carpark which is well lit and full of CCTV after a drink spiking - it's a regular occurence here unfortunately)

    The places people congregate to drink and party can be ugly anywhere.
     
  40. biri_island_surf

    biri_island_surf Hard Yards

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    everythings fixed , meet me in the yakebitaiyama bingo hall , i will be easy to spot , look for the old guy in the the $45 maroon aldi / crane border jacket .

    wow shiga now is reporting 50cm of new snow , probably the same at hakuba , noz and myoko .
     
  41. biri_island_surf

    biri_island_surf Hard Yards

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    my apology damian , smitty gives u a good rap so thats enough for me .

    by the way is there any discount for an old guy on one of your bc trips ????
     
  42. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Trying to claim a seniors discount. Worth a try I guess [​IMG] I recommend the gentleman's season of early April for the best discounts.

    (Smitty is a nice guy to speak up. But you do realise that accusing me of promoting business here actually bought way more attention to my business here than I could have done)
     
    #142 damian, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  43. biri_island_surf

    biri_island_surf Hard Yards

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    been lookee lookee myself
     
  44. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Sorry about the age joke. Considering I plan to be older than you one day, I should keep my mouth shut.

    But the punctuation comment stands [​IMG]
     
    #144 damian, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  45. fattwins

    fattwins One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    I don't think Japan is a dangerous country at all. I dont lock up my kayaks bike skis and sometimes leave my car keys in the car. What I do know though is what and where the danger is. I dont think that telling people the truth about where to see danger will effect a ski holiday.

    I wouldnt call myself weird though. I think it is a strange place to have ended up (japan) but I dont like where im from in Canada either. It is also nice to live without owing the bank money for the next 25 to 30 years.
     
  46. K@os

    K@os A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Japan is great, I've been there 3 times now and I'll be back again. I have never considered any part of it dangerous and this was my downfall.....blinkers on. Hopefully there will be more attention drawn to 'what not to do' in Japan (and anywhere for that matter) in future for unwary travellers who become awestruck and let their guard down by the friendliness of the place.
     
  47. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Japan is safe - I can't imagine anywhere safer. And that is why these rather unsafe corners need to be made known as in a setting like Japan it is so easy for a criminal to take you for a ride.
     
  48. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Agreed..... probably why in other places, you would be more wary, but not in Japan....
     
    #148 Sandy, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  49. Lorem ipsum

    Lorem ipsum One of Us

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Agreed.
     
  50. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tokyo warning: unsafe nightlife for travelers

    Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Just about anywhere else you are naturally wary (or should be), but in Japan you can get lulled into trusting everyone which in the wrong place can mean trouble.
     
    #150 Heinz, Mar 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013