Admin Notice Update 12 Feb 20 - PayPal payments blackout 8 Dec thru 11 Feb - Now reinstated.

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Richard, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    Sure. Stripe lacks the consumer profile that is required to act as the "trusted third party" gateway from the consumers pov. I don't know how this problem should be solved tbh.
     
    Marty_McSly likes this.
  2. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Who you using? I have been waiting for Commbank to catch up with ANZ and Westpac on this.
     
    Marty_McSly likes this.
  3. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    It's a Virgin (Velocity) pre paid card. Points system is shite, but I don't really care about that.
     
    Richard and Marty_McSly like this.
  4. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    ahhhh

    I got a velocity card sitting around I use maybe once a year. Didn't know they had a virtual facility.
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  5. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    The Velocity Rewards site is bloody appalling fwiw.
     
    Richard likes this.
  6. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra
    Commbank is funny, in some things they are way out in front of the others, in other things way behind.

    I have an account with another bank that I created back in 2006, because of the same ID legislation they were going to freeze that account unless I emailed them a scanned certified copy of my various ID o_O

    They could have at least had an upload facility through their bank site.
     
    skifree likes this.
  7. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,169
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Location:
    上越妙高
    Went through the same experience a few months ago with them locking up a huge amount of guest deposits and thereby season cash flow. Had my account for 19 years. Managed to extricate a fair amount but at a steep cost and lots of hassles. The remainder is locked up until April and now I'm not even allowed to log into the account (and they don't respond to requests why). I went over to Stripe and Square which are up to 1% cheaper on their commissions anyway. I hope Paypal crash and burn. Bloody thieves.
     
  8. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Once you start digging the horror stories are everywhere. It seems they are knee-jerk reacting to new State level regulatory oversight and without the support resources to deal with it. Plus the support staff will be cheap outsourced folk with no incentive to ‘care’ about retaining account holders. The pressure will be to ensure that PayPal does not end up on news as laundering drug money or such. So the default position is lock down.

    my mistake it seems was allowing the balance to get over $1000 - apparently that’s the trigger.
     
    M_G and Hyst like this.
  9. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    698
    Paypal are an AFCA member. You could go there if they wont assist.
     
    skiflat likes this.
  10. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,634
    Likes Received:
    30,112
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    What even is a virtual card?
     
  11. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    It's a second card attached to the main card account with it's own number & expiry date but doesn't physically exist. I can log in to my account and create a virtual card that is issued "instantly" and then can destroy it at any time. Unfortunately I can only have one virtual card at a time.
     
    climberman likes this.
  12. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,634
    Likes Received:
    30,112
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Ta :)
     
  13. chunky

    chunky Old n' Crusty

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 1998
    Messages:
    39,551
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Location:
    brisbane,qld,aus
    The CBA is slowly going through updating of ID on existing clients, particularly the older ones where in the 'old days' you may have only had to have shown your ID and then the accounts were opened. Now we have to upload all ID taken. Pain for those that had old family trusts and deeds where they have been misplaced over time. Current companies, firms and incorporated businesses have been very easy to update with the relevant searches and photo id. Paypal seems to be very antiquated to have caused all these problems for such a long time or just ignorant to their Australian based customers.
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  14. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra
    I was watching a podcast that Musk was a guest on the other day, he had some interesting things to say about the direction Pay Pal would have gone if they'd agreed with him (and it wouldn't have been called Pay Pal), however they didn't, it got taken over and he left - with the payout that allowed him to start SpaceX.

    He also mentioned Stripe was gradually eating the banks.
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  15. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hmm wonder when they'll get around to mine. I've had an account there since I was a child.
     
  16. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Staying the **** at home. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,417
    Likes Received:
    11,668
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    When the archaeologist gets around to deciphering the hieroglyphics on the tablets? :p

    :out:
     
    Hyst and D-eye like this.
  17. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra
    probably, though I will be very surprised if they want scanned certified ID emailed to them
     
  18. skimax

    skimax Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    31,371
    Likes Received:
    5,001
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Fair cop that
     
  19. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,883
    Likes Received:
    21,482
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Sooo

    the executive summary is pretty much anyone who deals with transactions of money as their line of business don’t know what they are doing.

    it’s an excellent state of affairs.
     
    Chaeron, Marty_McSly and cold wombat like this.
  20. chunky

    chunky Old n' Crusty

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 1998
    Messages:
    39,551
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Location:
    brisbane,qld,aus
    After it goes over $1000 the AML laws kick in. If you were to exchange notes for coin over the counter and it's over $1000 we need to fully id you to their guidelines. Easier if you are already a fully id'd client to the new requirements.
     
    Richard likes this.
  21. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    what podcast/vid is that?
     
  22. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra


    It's long, and it's just part 1. The PayPal part is around 1:19 -> 1:30
     
    Richard likes this.
  23. Harper11

    Harper11 Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    25,279
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Customers like Paypal
    You feel like you will get your money back if the product doesn’t arrive or is faulty ect
    And you aren’t giving your details to multiple vendors

    not so relevant on a ski form

    stripe ect while legit have a built in look about that you feel like you are just typing your details into a random box

    credit cards in Australia are very good at removing any fraudulent charges in my experience but can be a hassle changing card numbers ect
     
    currawong and cold wombat like this.
  24. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    30,091
    Likes Received:
    25,132
    Location:
    Perth
    You’d think so.
    However I had an issue receiving an exxy watch I had preordered from a Melbourne retailer via PayPal. The delay was apparently due to the supply of their order from the USA, however the problem was communication between me and the retailer. He basically ignored every email I sent him yet spammed my inbox with great new sale offers 3+times a week reminding me how pissed I was Inhadny heard back.

    In the end I reluctantly went through PayPals dispute process, after giving him fair warning that that was what I was going to have to do if I didn’t get a response.

    Within a few hours of lodging the dispute I got a call from him saying he was about to post my item but just noticed the PayPal dispute and that he can’t send it until the dispute is lifted. There was a lot of wordy blah blah about you needing to make the best effort to resolve with the vendor before proceeding to the next level etc, so I agreed to lift the PayPal dispute as soon as I saw Aus Post tracking number.

    However once lifted you’re done.
    If I got a toy plastic watch instead of the Fenix 6 solar pro there was nothing I could’ve done.
    Thankfully as it turns out the retailer was just a bad communicator, hopeless and we got the watch in the end.

    I use PayPal. But they don’t have my loyalty. I’m happy to give Stripe a whirl when renewal comes around
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  25. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    --------------------------

    UPDATE: 6 Feb 2020

    - Full access to our PayPal account was reinstated a few days ago.
    - Existing subscribers using PayPal, not effected by this issue and whose annual payment is due after 1 Feb, 2020 will continue as per usual until subscription is canceled or cc details on file with PayPal expire.
    - Subscribers using PayPal whose annual payment fell due between 8 Dec 2019 & 31 January 2020 had their subscription automatically cancelled by PayPal and either lapsed or chose to renew via Stripe (Approximately 60 accounts were affected)
    - Even whilst our PayPal account has been reinstated, we will continue to no longer offer PayPal as a payment method for new, expired or automatically canceled subscriptions for the foreseeable future.
    -----------------------------

    Thanks to all our subscribers for their patience. This note also added to the OP.
     
  26. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    5,504
    Location:
    Grounded
    Thanks Richard for your efforts and keeping us informed.
     
    currawong, Richard, Chaeron and 3 others like this.
  27. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,169
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Location:
    上越妙高
    Yes. Be gone Paypal.

    [​IMG]
     
  28. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,883
    Likes Received:
    21,482
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    @Richard I just updated the cc details (new expiry date) in my account area, but the only choice was pay as opposed to update details, so I suspect the system may have paid my subs now rather than December when it is due.
     
  29. Swiss

    Swiss One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2015
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    275
    Location:
    Canberra
    On the 29th of Jan I found this on my bank statement:

    AUTHORISATION ONLY - EFTPOS PURCHASE AT STRIPE CHECKOUT SAN FRANCISCOCA US

    It was for $0.00

    I think (but am not certain) this is the only site I've used Stripe on, which was for a ski.com season pass last year.

    @Richard or anyone else familiar with Stripe, does this sound like a prelude to something fraudulent?
     
  30. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    On face value it does not look fraudulent. Also. It says EFTPOS at a checkout. So you had your card in your hand. Possibly a hotel authorisation on checkin to cover room charges. Minibar etc.
     
    Swiss likes this.
  31. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,883
    Likes Received:
    21,482
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    yep took my money, @Richard you have my subs due in Dec2020 now. Can you flick a switch not to take my money in December 2020?
     
  32. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    will look at this morn
     
  33. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    5,504
    Location:
    Grounded
    Hi @Richard ,
    Paypal sent me a notice they sent $33 your way at the beginning of the week but you might not have received any notice as I now get a subscription reminder when I log in.
    Appreciate if you could check.
    Thanks
    Ps. It was an auto payment
     
  34. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Thanks hipo for the alert, that's enabled me to fix yours and note that @AWJ @K_Bird & @FLI355 also had recent payments since our account got reinstated by PayPal - that did not talk to the system - all now fixed.

    More debugging required. I think I'm going to have to eat humble pie and re-enable PayPal so that existing subscribers can continue without interruption.
     
  35. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Done.
     
    skifree likes this.
  36. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    UPDATE 12 FEB

    PayPal now reactivated.

    We still have 170 odd active subscribers via PayPal who were not affected by the recent PayPal blackout. In order for those subscriptions to continue automatically renewing each year it has been necessary to reactivate PayPal. Customers come first.

    (There is nothing to gain with my inconveniencing that many folk just to spite PayPal).

    This post has been added to the OP.
     
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    35,172
    Likes Received:
    21,815
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    appreciated but I guess you would prefer us to move to stripe instead anyway. what's the least bothersome way to do that?
     
    Charlie and hipo like this.
  38. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    To Switch, you can cancel your subscription from the subscription page -- OR -- cancel via your PayPal dashboard. When the subscription ends - renew via Stripe.

    But please don't feel the need to do that, unless it is something that suits you - as I'm never going to force move 170 folk from PayPal to Stripe. Hopefully our woes with PayPal are over and they continue to improve the API so it's as reliable as Stripe.
     
    cold wombat and currawong like this.
  39. Scooter

    Scooter One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    Hey @Richard - I was one of the pesky peeps who asked to pay via Direct Deposit. I guess one of my issues was, and still is, having my CC details retained by X (or Y or Z in some cases that you might not even be aware off) - especially for minor or one off type transactions. There are plenty of examples that can be cited where having this info retained can lead to issues (major corporate breaches etc.) so I try to limit my exposure where possible. Maybe that's tin foil hat stuff - I don't know LOL

    Anyway, just jumped on to ask about BPay - you look at that as an option (like when you first looked at the need to take payments etc.)? I have never really considered it from a business perspective (implementation and cost etc.) but as a payer it its widely implemented and I would imagine seen by most as a safe option (effectively a bank payment who you have a relationship with anyway) so was just curious as at face value it seemed an option - but you went with PayPal back when so maybe not?
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  40. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    BPay is for big business with thousands of accounts. We looked at it a decade ago when we actually had several hundred industry accommodation clients.

    BPay uses a unique client number / checksum combo. Implementation is a significant overhead. It's not like we are an electricity retailer.

    You are one of only two people I have let pay by direct deposit and that has been enough learning to know it ain't something that is even close to practical for regular members in volume. My books on that payment method are 110% closed.
     
  41. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    I'm not familiar with the inner workings of "financial services" systems, but one observation I've made over the years is that they always seem to have trouble "scaling down"- either for lower volume or lower value transactions. That's very much the opposite of compute services in general, even though those financial services are largely just a particular class of compute services. I wonder what is different about institutional experience, philosophy or regulatory environment that produces this scale down limitation?
     
  42. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    35,172
    Likes Received:
    21,815
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    the involvement of banks
     
    Richard likes this.
  43. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    That's who, not why.
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  44. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Perhaps mainframes and not having anyone who can code COBOL anymore?

    “we were unsuccessful in our attempts to persuade him to continue providing his services as, unfortunately, he had expired”
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  45. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    78,491
    Likes Received:
    48,732
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    This thought has crossed the mind of just about every person who accepts payments online. But it usually remains a thought.
     
    cold wombat and Richard like this.
  46. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    52,667
    Likes Received:
    24,956
    Location:
    Perth
    Sure, that's a thing, and some (all?) of the big four still have some antiquated systems, but I suspect they have quite a bit of experience wrapping those old services in somewhat modern APIs.

    Maybe the old batch oriented backend interbank settlement system is a critical piece of the puzzle (if it still exists in that form). From what I understand (take with a grain of salt) it is a legacy system that the banks value as a roadblock to non bank financial institutions competing with them on a level playing field. Dunno.
     
    currawong likes this.
  47. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,883
    Likes Received:
    21,482
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Current to date is still 2020, should it not be 2021?
     
  48. Scooter

    Scooter One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    Sorry mate - I did appreciate it however :D

    I actually thought BPay was suitable for small business thus the question. A quick google shows comments like used by 45K business for 60% + of bills so? I thought maybe cost was the issue given the banks involvement - I had to make a payment the other day and it was over my transfer amount so thought no worries will do it at a branch and an intra bank transfer was $28 - intra bank :eek: Ended up doing a bank cheque for $10.

    Given you guys are responsible for the site/backend accepting there is a cost to implement (you guys would need to code for it etc.) couldn't you do whatever you wanted relatively easily? What was involved from your end in regards to the Stripe implementation?

    For the record I did finally end up setting up a paypal account for my daughter (linked to a burner bank account - should still have the $20 balance LOL) but it has never been used as she has never gotten around to doing what necessitated setting it up (taking small payments).
     
  49. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    14,010
    Likes Received:
    15,946
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Thanks to @Beerman for alerting me of his failed upgrade, I have identified and fixed another issue with PayPal.

    In process have also rectified @zac150 & @Harry James recent failed PayPal payments

    I have also run through a full test upgrade and payment with a dummy account I use for testing and issue appears to be resolved. Fingers crossed future PayPal payments will run smoothly.
     
    Marty_McSly, currawong and zac150 like this.
  50. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    35,244
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    Canberra
    For small businesses Commbank added BPay facilities with certain terminals/accounts, it was tied to a main Commbank BPay ID, with a sub number for your business. If you changed to a different terminal it wasn't available any more. I put it on invoices for a while, but practically no one used it.
     
    cold wombat and Richard like this.