Admin Notice Update 12 Feb 20 - PayPal payments blackout 8 Dec thru 11 Feb - Now reinstated.

cold wombat

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I get your concerns. I take similar precautions with PayPal and have my personal PP locked down with a 2FA dongle. Like most of the tech heads here, I know what good online transaction hygiene is and how to minimise my exposure to fraud.

The button here says Stripe. The modal used to have a Stripe logo but now it does not. Probably because folk got confused when buying stuff on "MyCornerStore.com" and the payment page had a different logo and not one that said "MyCornerStore" - so they backed out - when dealing with the very large scale, folk are strange (it's why imho FB are absolute masters of both white UX and dark UX - scale reveals every.tiny.little.thing that causes friction in UX and needs to be fine tuned in order to get folk to do what you want them to do). Either way, I'd guarantee the logo on the modal cause more confusion than it created confidence. Which is a brand thing - an area where PayPal has an advantage at least. Way more brand presence with the consumer and association with safety.

Sure. Stripe lacks the consumer profile that is required to act as the "trusted third party" gateway from the consumers pov. I don't know how this problem should be solved tbh.
 
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Richard

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I have a virtual cc attached to my real cc. I use the virtual cc for all online transactions. I can destroy it and create a new one at will. I love that capability. If I have to deal with a dodgy merchant...

Who you using? I have been waiting for Commbank to catch up with ANZ and Westpac on this.
 
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D-eye

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Who you using? I have been waiting for Commbank to catch up with ANZ and Westpac on this.
Commbank is funny, in some things they are way out in front of the others, in other things way behind.

This freezing of our account is not about fraud or illegal activity - it's because they did not have 100points of id on all the directors of Leisurenet - and their lame-ass system would not allow me to update via the dashboard - because 'old account' FMD!

I have an account with another bank that I created back in 2006, because of the same ID legislation they were going to freeze that account unless I emailed them a scanned certified copy of my various ID o_O

They could have at least had an upload facility through their bank site.
 
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M_G

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Went through the same experience a few months ago with them locking up a huge amount of guest deposits and thereby season cash flow. Had my account for 19 years. Managed to extricate a fair amount but at a steep cost and lots of hassles. The remainder is locked up until April and now I'm not even allowed to log into the account (and they don't respond to requests why). I went over to Stripe and Square which are up to 1% cheaper on their commissions anyway. I hope Paypal crash and burn. Bloody thieves.
 

Richard

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Went through the same experience a few months ago with them locking up a huge amount of guest deposits and thereby season cash flow. Had my account for 19 years. Managed to extricate a fair amount but at a steep cost and lots of hassles. The remainder is locked up until April and now I'm not even allowed to log into the account (and they don't respond to requests why). I went over to Stripe and Square which are up to 1% cheaper on their commissions anyway. I hope Paypal crash and burn. Bloody thieves.

Once you start digging the horror stories are everywhere. It seems they are knee-jerk reacting to new State level regulatory oversight and without the support resources to deal with it. Plus the support staff will be cheap outsourced folk with no incentive to ‘care’ about retaining account holders. The pressure will be to ensure that PayPal does not end up on news as laundering drug money or such. So the default position is lock down.

my mistake it seems was allowing the balance to get over $1000 - apparently that’s the trigger.
 
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cold wombat

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What even is a virtual card?
It's a second card attached to the main card account with it's own number & expiry date but doesn't physically exist. I can log in to my account and create a virtual card that is issued "instantly" and then can destroy it at any time. Unfortunately I can only have one virtual card at a time.
 
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climberman

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It's a second card attached to the main card account with it's own number & expiry date but doesn't physically exist. I can log in to my account and create a virtual card that is issued "instantly" and then can destroy it at any time. Unfortunately I can only have one virtual card at a time.
Ta :)
 

chunky

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The CBA is slowly going through updating of ID on existing clients, particularly the older ones where in the 'old days' you may have only had to have shown your ID and then the accounts were opened. Now we have to upload all ID taken. Pain for those that had old family trusts and deeds where they have been misplaced over time. Current companies, firms and incorporated businesses have been very easy to update with the relevant searches and photo id. Paypal seems to be very antiquated to have caused all these problems for such a long time or just ignorant to their Australian based customers.
 
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D-eye

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Once you start digging the horror stories are everywhere. It seems they are knee-jerk reacting to new State level regulatory oversight and without the support resources to deal with it. Plus the support staff will be cheap outsourced folk with no incentive to ‘care’ about retaining account holders. The pressure will be to ensure that PayPal does not end up on news as laundering drug money or such. So the default position is lock down.

I was watching a podcast that Musk was a guest on the other day, he had some interesting things to say about the direction Pay Pal would have gone if they'd agreed with him (and it wouldn't have been called Pay Pal), however they didn't, it got taken over and he left - with the payout that allowed him to start SpaceX.

He also mentioned Stripe was gradually eating the banks.
 
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D-eye

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The CBA is slowly going through updating of ID on existing clients, particularly the older ones where in the 'old days' you may have only had to have shown your ID and then the accounts were opened.
Hmm wonder when they'll get around to mine. I've had an account there since I was a child.
 

chunky

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Once you start digging the horror stories are everywhere. It seems they are knee-jerk reacting to new State level regulatory oversight and without the support resources to deal with it. Plus the support staff will be cheap outsourced folk with no incentive to ‘care’ about retaining account holders. The pressure will be to ensure that PayPal does not end up on news as laundering drug money or such. So the default position is lock down.

my mistake it seems was allowing the balance to get over $1000 - apparently that’s the trigger.
After it goes over $1000 the AML laws kick in. If you were to exchange notes for coin over the counter and it's over $1000 we need to fully id you to their guidelines. Easier if you are already a fully id'd client to the new requirements.
 
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Richard

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I was watching a podcast that Musk was a guest on the other day, he had some interesting things to say about the direction Pay Pal would have gone if they'd agreed with him (and it wouldn't have been called Pay Pal), however they didn't, it got taken over and he left - with the payout that allowed him to start SpaceX.

He also mentioned Stripe was gradually eating the banks.

what podcast/vid is that?
 

Harper11

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Customers like Paypal
You feel like you will get your money back if the product doesn’t arrive or is faulty ect
And you aren’t giving your details to multiple vendors

not so relevant on a ski form

stripe ect while legit have a built in look about that you feel like you are just typing your details into a random box

credit cards in Australia are very good at removing any fraudulent charges in my experience but can be a hassle changing card numbers ect
 

LMB

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Customers like Paypal
You feel like you will get your money back if the product doesn’t arrive or is faulty ect
ect
You’d think so.
However I had an issue receiving an exxy watch I had preordered from a Melbourne retailer via PayPal. The delay was apparently due to the supply of their order from the USA, however the problem was communication between me and the retailer. He basically ignored every email I sent him yet spammed my inbox with great new sale offers 3+times a week reminding me how pissed I was Inhadny heard back.

In the end I reluctantly went through PayPals dispute process, after giving him fair warning that that was what I was going to have to do if I didn’t get a response.

Within a few hours of lodging the dispute I got a call from him saying he was about to post my item but just noticed the PayPal dispute and that he can’t send it until the dispute is lifted. There was a lot of wordy blah blah about you needing to make the best effort to resolve with the vendor before proceeding to the next level etc, so I agreed to lift the PayPal dispute as soon as I saw Aus Post tracking number.

However once lifted you’re done.
If I got a toy plastic watch instead of the Fenix 6 solar pro there was nothing I could’ve done.
Thankfully as it turns out the retailer was just a bad communicator, hopeless and we got the watch in the end.

I use PayPal. But they don’t have my loyalty. I’m happy to give Stripe a whirl when renewal comes around
 
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Richard

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--------------------------

UPDATE: 6 Feb 2020

- Full access to our PayPal account was reinstated a few days ago.
- Existing subscribers using PayPal, not effected by this issue and whose annual payment is due after 1 Feb, 2020 will continue as per usual until subscription is canceled or cc details on file with PayPal expire.
- Subscribers using PayPal whose annual payment fell due between 8 Dec 2019 & 31 January 2020 had their subscription automatically cancelled by PayPal and either lapsed or chose to renew via Stripe (Approximately 60 accounts were affected)
- Even whilst our PayPal account has been reinstated, we will continue to no longer offer PayPal as a payment method for new, expired or automatically canceled subscriptions for the foreseeable future.
-----------------------------

Thanks to all our subscribers for their patience. This note also added to the OP.
 

M_G

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--------------------------
- Even whilst our PayPal account has been reinstated, we will continue to no longer offer PayPal as a payment method for new, expired or automatically canceled subscriptions for the foreseeable future.
.

Yes. Be gone Paypal.

giphy.gif
 

skifree

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@Richard I just updated the cc details (new expiry date) in my account area, but the only choice was pay as opposed to update details, so I suspect the system may have paid my subs now rather than December when it is due.
 

Swiss

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On the 29th of Jan I found this on my bank statement:

AUTHORISATION ONLY - EFTPOS PURCHASE AT STRIPE CHECKOUT SAN FRANCISCOCA US

It was for $0.00

I think (but am not certain) this is the only site I've used Stripe on, which was for a ski.com season pass last year.

@Richard or anyone else familiar with Stripe, does this sound like a prelude to something fraudulent?
 

Richard

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On the 29th of Jan I found this on my bank statement:

AUTHORISATION ONLY - EFTPOS PURCHASE AT STRIPE CHECKOUT SAN FRANCISCOCA US

It was for $0.00

I think (but am not certain) this is the only site I've used Stripe on, which was for a ski.com season pass last year.

@Richard or anyone else familiar with Stripe, does this sound like a prelude to something fraudulent?

On face value it does not look fraudulent. Also. It says EFTPOS at a checkout. So you had your card in your hand. Possibly a hotel authorisation on checkin to cover room charges. Minibar etc.
 
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skifree

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@Richard I just updated the cc details (new expiry date) in my account area, but the only choice was pay as opposed to update details, so I suspect the system may have paid my subs now rather than December when it is due.

yep took my money, @Richard you have my subs due in Dec2020 now. Can you flick a switch not to take my money in December 2020?
 

hipo

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Hi @Richard ,
Paypal sent me a notice they sent $33 your way at the beginning of the week but you might not have received any notice as I now get a subscription reminder when I log in.
Appreciate if you could check.
Thanks
Ps. It was an auto payment
 

Richard

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Hi @Richard ,
Paypal sent me a notice they sent $33 your way at the beginning of the week but you might not have received any notice as I now get a subscription reminder when I log in.
Appreciate if you could check.
Thanks
Ps. It was an auto payment

Thanks hipo for the alert, that's enabled me to fix yours and note that @AWJ @K_Bird & @FLI355 also had recent payments since our account got reinstated by PayPal - that did not talk to the system - all now fixed.

More debugging required. I think I'm going to have to eat humble pie and re-enable PayPal so that existing subscribers can continue without interruption.
 

Richard

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UPDATE 12 FEB

PayPal now reactivated.

We still have 170 odd active subscribers via PayPal who were not affected by the recent PayPal blackout. In order for those subscriptions to continue automatically renewing each year it has been necessary to reactivate PayPal. Customers come first.

(There is nothing to gain with my inconveniencing that many folk just to spite PayPal).

This post has been added to the OP.
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
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UPDATE 12 FEB

PayPal now reactivated.

We still have 170 odd active subscribers via PayPal who were not affected by the recent PayPal blackout. In order for those subscriptions to continue automatically renewing each year it has been necessary to reactivate PayPal. Customers come first.

(There is nothing to gain with my inconveniencing that many folk just to spite PayPal).

This post has been added to the OP.
appreciated but I guess you would prefer us to move to stripe instead anyway. what's the least bothersome way to do that?
 
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Richard

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appreciated but I guess you would prefer us to move to stripe instead anyway. what's the least bothersome way to do that?

To Switch, you can cancel your subscription from the subscription page -- OR -- cancel via your PayPal dashboard. When the subscription ends - renew via Stripe.

But please don't feel the need to do that, unless it is something that suits you - as I'm never going to force move 170 folk from PayPal to Stripe. Hopefully our woes with PayPal are over and they continue to improve the API so it's as reliable as Stripe.
 

Scooter

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Hey @Richard - I was one of the pesky peeps who asked to pay via Direct Deposit. I guess one of my issues was, and still is, having my CC details retained by X (or Y or Z in some cases that you might not even be aware off) - especially for minor or one off type transactions. There are plenty of examples that can be cited where having this info retained can lead to issues (major corporate breaches etc.) so I try to limit my exposure where possible. Maybe that's tin foil hat stuff - I don't know LOL

Anyway, just jumped on to ask about BPay - you look at that as an option (like when you first looked at the need to take payments etc.)? I have never really considered it from a business perspective (implementation and cost etc.) but as a payer it its widely implemented and I would imagine seen by most as a safe option (effectively a bank payment who you have a relationship with anyway) so was just curious as at face value it seemed an option - but you went with PayPal back when so maybe not?
 
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Richard

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Hey @Richard - I was one of the pesky peeps who asked to pay via Direct Deposit. I guess one of my issues was, and still is, having my CC details retained by X (or Y or Z in some cases that you might not even be aware off) - especially for minor or one off type transactions. There are plenty of examples that can be cited where having this info retained can lead to issues (major corporate breaches etc.) so I try to limit my exposure where possible. Maybe that's tin foil hat stuff - I don't know LOL

Anyway, just jumped on to ask about BPay - you look at that as an option (like when you first looked at the need to take payments etc.)? I have never really considered it from a business perspective (implementation and cost etc.) but as a payer it its widely implemented and I would imagine seen by most as a safe option (effectively a bank payment who you have a relationship with anyway) so was just curious as at face value it seemed an option - but you went with PayPal back when so maybe not?

BPay is for big business with thousands of accounts. We looked at it a decade ago when we actually had several hundred industry accommodation clients.

BPay uses a unique client number / checksum combo. Implementation is a significant overhead. It's not like we are an electricity retailer.

You are one of only two people I have let pay by direct deposit and that has been enough learning to know it ain't something that is even close to practical for regular members in volume. My books on that payment method are 110% closed.
 

cold wombat

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BPay is for big business with thousands of accounts.

I'm not familiar with the inner workings of "financial services" systems, but one observation I've made over the years is that they always seem to have trouble "scaling down"- either for lower volume or lower value transactions. That's very much the opposite of compute services in general, even though those financial services are largely just a particular class of compute services. I wonder what is different about institutional experience, philosophy or regulatory environment that produces this scale down limitation?
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
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I'm not familiar with the inner workings of "financial services" systems, but one observation I've made over the years is that they always seem to have trouble "scaling down"- either for lower volume or lower value transactions. That's very much the opposite of compute services in general, even though those financial services are largely just a particular class of compute services. I wonder what is different about institutional experience, philosophy or regulatory environment that produces this scale down limitation?
the involvement of banks
 
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Richard

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I'm not familiar with the inner workings of "financial services" systems, but one observation I've made over the years is that they always seem to have trouble "scaling down"- either for lower volume or lower value transactions. That's very much the opposite of compute services in general, even though those financial services are largely just a particular class of compute services. I wonder what is different about institutional experience, philosophy or regulatory environment that produces this scale down limitation?

Perhaps mainframes and not having anyone who can code COBOL anymore?

“we were unsuccessful in our attempts to persuade him to continue providing his services as, unfortunately, he had expired”
 
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cold wombat

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Perhaps mainframes and not having anyone who can code COBOL anymore?

“we were unsuccessful in our attempts to persuade him to continue providing his services as, unfortunately, he had expired”

Sure, that's a thing, and some (all?) of the big four still have some antiquated systems, but I suspect they have quite a bit of experience wrapping those old services in somewhat modern APIs.

Maybe the old batch oriented backend interbank settlement system is a critical piece of the puzzle (if it still exists in that form). From what I understand (take with a grain of salt) it is a legacy system that the banks value as a roadblock to non bank financial institutions competing with them on a level playing field. Dunno.
 
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Scooter

One of Us
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BPay is for big business with thousands of accounts. We looked at it a decade ago when we actually had several hundred industry accommodation clients.

BPay uses a unique client number / checksum combo. Implementation is a significant overhead. It's not like we are an electricity retailer.

You are one of only two people I have let pay by direct deposit and that has been enough learning to know it ain't something that is even close to practical for regular members in volume. My books on that payment method are 110% closed.

Sorry mate - I did appreciate it however :D

I actually thought BPay was suitable for small business thus the question. A quick google shows comments like used by 45K business for 60% + of bills so? I thought maybe cost was the issue given the banks involvement - I had to make a payment the other day and it was over my transfer amount so thought no worries will do it at a branch and an intra bank transfer was $28 - intra bank :eek: Ended up doing a bank cheque for $10.

Given you guys are responsible for the site/backend accepting there is a cost to implement (you guys would need to code for it etc.) couldn't you do whatever you wanted relatively easily? What was involved from your end in regards to the Stripe implementation?

For the record I did finally end up setting up a paypal account for my daughter (linked to a burner bank account - should still have the $20 balance LOL) but it has never been used as she has never gotten around to doing what necessitated setting it up (taking small payments).
 

Richard

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Thanks to @Beerman for alerting me of his failed upgrade, I have identified and fixed another issue with PayPal.

In process have also rectified @zac150 & @Harry James recent failed PayPal payments

I have also run through a full test upgrade and payment with a dummy account I use for testing and issue appears to be resolved. Fingers crossed future PayPal payments will run smoothly.
 

D-eye

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BPay is for big business with thousands of accounts. We looked at it a decade ago when we actually had several hundred industry accommodation clients.

BPay uses a unique client number / checksum combo. Implementation is a significant overhead. It's not like we are an electricity retailer.

For small businesses Commbank added BPay facilities with certain terminals/accounts, it was tied to a main Commbank BPay ID, with a sub number for your business. If you changed to a different terminal it wasn't available any more. I put it on invoices for a while, but practically no one used it.
 
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