USA 21/22 Planning
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I'd feel a lot more comfortable about this if we could get a booster before going as a defense to infection. Wife was PF'ed in May and I got my second AZ in August.
That makes sense for me since I've been paying attention to Australia, New Zealand, and Europe a lot more than most Americans.
The list of vaccines that Aspen Ski Co. (Skico) will accept includes the ones that are approved by WHO but not used in the USA. In particular Astra Zeneca is on the list. Same list as will be used for vaccinated international travelers in general.
Skico required vaccination for their employees weeks ago. I think the vax rate for full-time employees was probably well over 80% by then. In general, given the importance of the ski industry to Colorado there is relatively little resistance to vaccination requirements, especially in the mountain town communities that know they have limited hospital capacity.
That said, there will be COVID-19 in and around places where vaxxed Aussies will end up if they choose to fly to Colorado for a ski trip this season. The first Delta wave is over, but Delta is still around. Staying uninfected will depend more on their behavior in terms of keeping their distance and masking indoors as needed, even in situations where masking is not required. It's not that hard to figure out. I flew for four ski trips in the Rockies during the 2020-21 season before I was eligible for vaccination. By April the airports and planes were full.
I've been driving for multi-state trips between North Carolina and New York or New England about once a month starting in June 2021. I've done pretty much the same as I did in July-Aug 2020 in terms of where I stayed overnight, or bought meals, or chose to go to the restroom at gas stations.
There hasn't been a headline about a COVID-19 outbreak traced back to an American airport or domestic flight (under 6 hours) as far as I know. The focus for contact tracing has been local, meaning on schools and other settings where people live together such as long term care facilities.
While a booster can't hurt, having a good selection of cloth masks to use indoors and outdoors where there are many people should be high on the packing list.
The behavioral change that started in 2020 is that if someone is wearing a mask of any kind, other people tend to keep their distance more. That's still happening in 2021. Doesn't matter if a county is high vax or low vax. At least that's my observation from being in gas station convenience stores and supermarkets while out-of-state in the last few months.
Breakthrough cases happen with enough exposure. Unlikely to require an ER visit, but cannot depend on vaccination for prevention.
Jackson Hole has posted their winter operations guidelines. The county mask mandate for public indoor spaces currently goes until Dec. 31, 2021. My favorite JH instructor is not happy that masks will not be required in the gondolas, but she is not surprised.
Among the improvements mentioned is a note that there is now a restroom at the top of the Teton lift.
" . . .
We will continue to follow Teton County’s health orders, which are constantly evolving. This season, we plan to load the Aerial Tram, gondolas and chair lifts to full capacity. With the tram operating at full capacity, we will not be offering the boot pack to the top of Rendezvous Bowl, but our lift system still enables open-air chair access to the top of Sublette lift.
Teton County Public Health Order #21-5 is still in force, requiring individuals within Teton County to wear face coverings in public indoor spaces through December 31, 2021. Following these guidelines, JHMR will require face coverings in all indoor spaces, including restaurants, retail and rental shops, restrooms and our Guest Service Center. The tram is included in the definition of public indoor spaces, given its capacity for 100 people. Outdoor spaces, including the base area, lift lines and the other lifts, will not require masks.
We ask each of our guests to help us prioritize health and safety. This includes complying with Teton County health orders and carrying a mask with you. We are offering full refunds for any reason on JHMR Season Pass products through November 15, 2021, less an administrative fee.
. . ."
"We ask each of our guests to help us prioritize health and safety"
Sure... but one of my favourite "only in the USA" stories was from JH about 5 years ago.
1. Skier decides he needs to ski with a gun.2. A loaded gun3. He crashed and lost it4. He got it back after ski patrol found a gun5. All of this broke no Wyoming law or resort rules6. "Resort officials say they don’t recommend bringing weapons on the mountain"Skier gets gun back after losing it on Jackson Hole Mountain
While I don't want to get Covid, as a vaccinated person, the thought of getting it from a sickness perspective would not make me wear masks everywhere. However, the inconvenience of not being able to get a flight home when you are scheduled to do so means that I will take every precaution to avoid catching Covid.
Much of this is under our control by the use of masks. However, there will be unavoidable situations where you are very exposed to what others are doing. Example, on a crowded gondola, in a restaurant eating where the server is not vaccinated, etc. It's easy to sound like I am overly fixated on this but not being able to catch your scheduled flight home in my world (and I expect for most International travelers) is a major deal. The reality is one will have used up or overextended both their annual leave and the available holiday funds by the end of the trip and need to get home. Staying an extra 7 to 10 days is expensive and probably not great fun while being fixated on when the Covid leaves you and when you can get a flight.
I will be doing anything I can to prevent this circumstance eventuating which means wearing masks, getting a booster for travel (if qualifying) and also selecting the ski destination based on its vaccination rules and/or rates. At the moment, this also means that the US is probably at the bottom of the options. The European countries have higher vaccination rates and in the case of Italy and France, have mandated vaccination for many jobs facing customers and I feel this reduces the chance of not being able to board a return flight.
Makes sense to me to travel to Europe instead of the USA in 2022 when the long flight times are the same order of magnitude for either continent.
For my situation, I'm opting to drive 2000 miles from North Carolina to Colorado in December to meet up with the ski buddies I ski with the most at big mountains. Three of us live far way enough that flying for ski trips is the usual approach. The other lives in Albuquerque, NM, and normally drives to meet up where ever we start a ski trip in the Rockies. I didn't want to deal with crowded airports and planes the week before Christmas. With Christmas Day on a Saturday, the entire week Dec. 20-24 is a school holiday for many K-12 schools. All colleges will be on winter break by then too.
Being retired and with a new AWD hybrid SUV (replaced an old minivan), taking a few days to make the drive seemed worth doing. Plus one of my friends is going to drive back with me. A bit of a detour to drop him off at his home in Ohio, but worth having the company. The bonus is that we aren't tied to a return flight schedule. We may well add a day or two of skiing after the week at Wolf Creek.
I flew Southwest for a ski trip in Dec 2020, and again in Feb, Mar, Apr in 2021. The planes were relatively empty before April. That was before vaccination was an available for me, and before Delta.
I dropped the idea of flying for a trip to Big Sky in mid-season in favor of a driving trip using the Indy Pass with a couple friends in the northeast.
I'm still flying for a trip to Taos in Feb and my annual stay at Alta Lodge in April. From my home I have to change planes for any airport useful for ski trips. I certainly hope masking in airports and on planes will remain mandatory in 2022.
It's certainly been a snowy month in Utah. The snow is isolated to the the upper canyons and the valleys are still green. Snow at the moment is rounding and stable. If we don't go into a 1.5 month dry spell like last year it should be a good winter for avalanche hazard. Not much forecast for the next week but things change.
I arrived in Texas again last night from Japan. It's the 4th time in the last year.
I always get a sense of trepidation about testing positive just before a flight.... Not so much about getting sick since May when I was vaccinated in the US, but just the crazy plan B gymnastics that would be needed to change flights, insurance issues and retesting.
Always best to have a plan B.
So I have two home rapid antigen test kits with me, to test a couple of dyas before my "official test" to make sure I don't waste money on the paid COVID travel test(~$160 USD) if I'm going to test positive anyway. And plus, after testing positive, its easier to keep testing until you test negative on the home rapid antigen test, before testing for the official test.
I flew via SLC, and the valleys around SLC are still bone dry desert, no green to speak of and no snow. Mountains have snow on them just a few hundred metres above the valley though.It's certainly been a snowy month in Utah. The snow is isolated to the the upper canyons and the valleys are still green. Snow at the moment is rounding and stable. If we don't go into a 1.5 month dry spell like last year it should be a good winter for avalanche hazard. Not much forecast for the next week but things change.
I've posted some tips in the COVID travel thread for handling the travel issues:
https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/coronavirus-travel-during-and-after-covid.88247/post-4889677
Depends on your definition of green
FYI, 'skiable' snow level is a long way up canyon (8000 feet in LCC and 8500 feet in SLC/Park City.
I flew to Sydney back in June and got covid tested (twice actually, because I was concerned about turn-around time around a public holiday); both were free in Utah and came as letters saying not-detected.
The test I did in NZ to fly back to the USA was paid (and expensive!).
Maybe you should look at getting a free test from the hospital and/or a pharmacy.
I did, but I didn't know that CVS required you to make an appointment in the CVS "Minute Clinic" to sign any documents. Japan requires a SPECIFIC form filled in and certified, which is an extra service in the US.Depends on your definition of green FYI, 'skiable' snow level is a long way up canyon (8000 feet in LCC and 8500 feet in SLC/Park City.
I flew to Sydney back in June and got covid tested (twice actually, because I was concerned about turn-around time around a public holiday); both were free in Utah and came as letters saying not-detected.
The test I did in NZ to fly back to the USA was paid (and expensive!).
Maybe you should look at getting a free test from the hospital and/or a pharmacy.
Yep, unless you are happy to expose yourself completely to a "come what may" mindset, it would be silly not to take rapid antigen tests before getting an official test on the way home, regardless of where you visit. My point is that if you look at Vax rates and policies, you have a higher chance of getting Covid in the US than in Europe and Italy and France in particular have very high vax rates.
Not that I expect any Aussies to be skiing in New York this winter, but here are the masking rules for the ORDA mountains: Belleayre, Gore, Whiteface. Whiteface is better known since it's in Lake Placid where the Winter Olympics have been held a couple times. Gore is actually bigger and closer to New York City. Belleayre is in the Catskills and even closer to NYC, so it can be crowded on weekends. There is not really much lodging close to Belleayre.
PB and I are in the exact same Position - I’ll get my booster in a couple of weeks but I’ll be asking my GP whether he can get his early so we are both boosted before we go.
Speaking of “going”.
Booked.
Telluride.
W00t!!!
I’ve actually been keeping it on the down low a bit only telling close friends/family as we see them if it comes up in conversation. Travelling, especially for pleasure elicits some interesting responses from people in this new world.It's not nice to brag.
But I sure would be.
We will be there then!
Leaving on the 2nd of April.
I haven’t pulled the trigger just yet ( only got the last bookings of everything confirmed yesterday) but I am seriously considering going with the option @Sandy suggested (Seven Corners). My only concern with that is whether I can extend it to cover Japan if we suddenly detour via Hokkaido on the way back to Aus.
Destination resorts in the Rockies will be operating fairly close to pre-pandemic normal. While some indoor spaces will require vaccination, that's not consistent even at a given resort. Masking indoors is going to be pretty common. Masking outdoors and on chairlifts is not likely to be required. Gondolas and trams are more likely to require masking but it depends on location.
Special events that were not held last season are returning. Here's an example from Steamboat. I have a few friends who will be at Steamboat in January so I'm paying a bit of attention.
The four Powdr resorts that will have Fast Tracks this season are starting on different dates. All will be open by late November.
Copper: maybe starting opening day, Nov. 30
Snowbird: Dec. 1
Killington: Dec. 11
Mt. Bachelor: Dec. 18
La Niña Is Coming to Shape Winter. What to Know.
Weather phenomenon threatens to prolong West’s drought and keep northern areas colder than usual
Park City delayed it's opening from Nov 19 to date to be determined after warm weather has prevented snowmaking with no cool weather in the immediate forecast.
Deer Valley will be in a similar boat in regards to snow making. But I expect Alta, Snowbird, Brighton and Solitude to be able to eek something out for opening day given they're higher altitude base areas already have natural snow cover.
Wolf Creek hasn't been able to justify 7-day operations yet. After the first dump, it's been too warm and/or dry. Hoping for a shift in the weather in early Dec. My friends and I start skiing at Wolf on Dec. 12.
The Epic resorts in Tahoe are not opening on Nov. 19 as announced a while back. When Mother Nature doesn't help out, not really too much that can be done.
I would guess that the hope for all destination resorts is that they can open by Thanksgiving weekend at least, Nov. 27-28.
Meanwhile my friend who is going to Lake Placid, NY for Thanksgiving was happy to confirm that Whiteface will open on Nov. 26. She lives close enough to drive.
The ski hills in the southeast were able to start snowmaking relatively early. Could be 3-4 places open by late Nov. The goal is usually to get open by the first week of Dec. All they need is about a week of consistent cold weather to get a few top-to-bottom trails open. Skiing in the region is based on 100% snowmaking on well mowed trails that are almost all groomed.
So we are booked 1st 3 weeks of Feb to LAX. (ex SYD)
The loose plan is straight to Vegas, for a night or so, then grand canyon, then up to Salt Lake. Ski a bit of the SLC resorts and hire a car and maybe do Crested Butte then up the other way to Jackson. Few days in each place.
I have been to all of these places but the wife and child haven't that's why the weird itinerary.
Also wife doesn't ski so need to be sort of near some "other things" to do? Shopping etc.
Questions:
1) we are codeshare on AA to LAX. Cant pre - purchase extra baggage? Is there a way around this? Probably need 1 extra for ski gear.
2) what's the deal with car hire around SLC? Any helpful tips.
3) Welcome comments on the itinerary (CB may be a bit of a stretch goal - wrong direction)
Car hire
- it might be a lot more expensive than you imagine due to the car shortage.
- it’s often a lot cheaper to get your own 3rd party car insurance than buy the car rental policy. YMMV
- car rental in slc won’t guarantee and likely won’t have snow tires on any vehicle. If you get a 4wd you will still need a minimum of mud+snow (or 3peak rated) tires to drive up the canyon if it’s snowy, they are now usually checking when the tire restriction is in effect. You can park n ride & catch the bus.
- be aware of parking restrictions now in place at Alta on weekends and holidays, limited parking at snowbird without reservations and paid parking only at solitude (you can park on the road outside solitude, be sure to look at the signage and your vehicle is meant to be 1 foot behind the white lane marking).
For shopping, your wife should go to City Creek which is the ‘fancy’ shopping mall downtown owned by the Mormon church. Across the road is the Mormon ‘temple’ which is a bit of a tourist attraction. Also the Nordstrom rack in Sugarhouse is worth a look. There’s also a Patagonia factory outlet there too (new, last season and defect -sizing, stain etc). Backcountry.com retail store in west valley is also cool as you can get them to pull almost anything from the attached warehouse to try on / look at. There’s also some cool op shops around to explore too (throughout Sugarhouse and downtown). There’s outlet malls in park city (kimball junction) and Draper (south of slc) but outlet malls are pretty much dead due to a combo of reduced retail trade and companies making ‘outlet specific’ lines of products reducing the value proposition, but there’s an option for a look.
For your itinerary, I think that going to CB then back up to Jackson is a stretch. Why don’t you stay up in the north if you’re going to Jackson and go to grand targhee (not too far away) sun valley, Idaho or Big sky, Mt instead?
Or if you’re going south, head to Moab for a bit of non-ski time then onto telluride, silverton (guided skiing in peak season, you’ll need to reserve) and crested butte.
Can’t 100% guarantee this but usually with codeshare flights, you can call your booking airline and request a ticket number on the codeshare (not the ticket number you currently have with that booking airline), then you can lookup that reservation on the codeshare airline’s website and pre-purchase bags. Might work, might not.
Yeah I think we are going Nth, as Jackson / Big Sky / Yellowstone are sort of our primary destinations.
re: car hire, I was kinda expecting it to be expensive....
Great idea re: ticket number, will try that.
Thanks all for the suggestions.
The destination resorts in Tahoe, Utah, and Colorado are stressing about getting open by the last week of November, which is Thanksgiving week in 2021. While there was an early snowstorm or two that got everyone excited, it's been quite dry and warm since then. These days, snowmaking is the only way to have top-to-bottom runs before mid-December.
The flip side is that people are skiing already in my neck of the woods. Cataloochee is a small hill in the mountains of North Carolina, close to the Tennessee border. They opened this morning. Cataloochee was founded in the 1960s based on 100% snowmaking for about 50 acres, 740 ft vertical. The family who owned the land had a dude ranch during the green seasons. Adding a few slopes meant their staff could have jobs year round. Cataloochee opens early in the fall and closes relatively late in the spring because they make snow at every opportunity. Watching the live webcams is good fun.
My daughter is in college about 45 minutes from Cataloochee. I skied there for the first time a few years ago. It joined the Indy Pass as a founding member.
Webcams of Cataloochee Ski Area | Cataloochee Ski Area
Webcams of Cataloochee Ski Area including omigosh, ski lodge and hemphill bald view
cataloochee.com
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Anyone planning to ski in the USA in Feb-Mar may want to stay aware of school holidays for 2022.
Looking at the dates that Epic resorts will be limiting the sale of day tickets, I realized that in February that holiday period covers two weekends and the entire week of Presidents' Day, Feb. 21. In New England and New York that entire week is a "mid-winter recess" for public schools and probably some private schools too. That means not only will families be skiing locally, some will be flying to Epic resorts. Presumably those are mostly the people who took advantage of the 20% decrease in the price of Epic passes for 2021-22 compared to the previous season.
Students in Chicago don't get a mid-winter break. Only Feb. 21 is a public school holiday. Spring break is in April 2021 because that's closer to Easter.
Texas seems to have Feb. 14-18 off, but Texans usually take their ski vacations in March during spring break. At least that's the way it is for Taos. Maybe it's too cold for them in February.
In general, spring breaks are scattered in March and April so most destination resorts don't have a particular week that is overrun like during Christmas week. American colleges tend to stick to a set schedule that doesn't change based on Easter. K-12 public schools vary in terms of whether or not Easter is a factor when planning the school year calendar.
Thanks for the info.We are skiing that presidents week at Park City in Utah. Do you think it will be necessary to precook lift tickets there? I don’t want to risk getting there and not being able to ski but are hesitant to buy epic 4 day pass now then find we cannot get over there ? Any comments or experiences appreciated!Anyone planning to ski in the USA in Feb-Mar may want to stay aware of school holidays for 2022.
Looking at the dates that Epic resorts will be limiting the sale of day tickets, I realized that in February that holiday period covers two weekends and the entire week of Presidents' Day, Feb. 21. In New England and New York that entire week is a "mid-winter recess" for public schools and probably some private schools too. That means not only will families be skiing locally, some will be flying to Epic resorts. Presumably those are mostly the people who took advantage of the 20% decrease in the price of Epic passes for 2021-22 compared to the previous season.
Students in Chicago don't get a mid-winter break. Only Feb. 21 is a public school holiday. Spring break is in April 2021 because that's closer to Easter.
Texas seems to have Feb. 14-18 off, but Texans usually take their ski vacations in March during spring break. At least that's the way it is for Taos. Maybe it's too cold for them in February.
In general, spring breaks are scattered in March and April so most destination resorts don't have a particular week that is overrun like during Christmas week. American colleges tend to stick to a set schedule that doesn't change based on Easter. K-12 public schools vary in terms of whether or not Easter is a factor when planning the school year calendar.
I’m planning to go USA for snowboarding this year any tips gonna be my first time snowboarding internationally I’m a advanced snowboarder and have been snowboarding since I was 4 years old what are the best resorts in the US
You'll have a great time at any one of the numerous big hills - they're all great. You'll be blown away.
The decision on where to go has little to do with the actual time on snow. Logistics is the big concern. Travel, cost of lodging and lift tickets etc.
Sbooker...You'll have a great time at any one of the numerous big hills - they're all great. You'll be blown away. The decision on where to go has little to do with the actual time on snow. Logistics is the big concern. Travel, cost of lodging and lift tickets etc.
Agree with Sbooker. Do your research. Take a look at Mammoth, Kirkwood & the Tahoe area. Easy access from LA/SFO, usually good snow, lodging relatively inexpensive. Could be a good first time option. Enjoy!
We are skiing Park City for Xmas. The risk is snow at the moment more than anything else
I've been told that accommodation bookings are strong but i doubt you'll have any trouble given the huge amount of services in the area. I would buy the EPIC pass - are you worried of the COVID travel risk or something else?
Yes, there is a risk of not getting tickets at Park City Mountain Resort if you walk up to the window Feb. 18-27 (the period that they are limiting pass sales). You could always go ski at Deer Valley (* Note: they limit pass sales every day) or go around to Sundance, Solitude, Brighton, Alta or Snowbird - all a 45min-1hr drive). No one knows in actual fact what the number of ticket sales will be limited to and if it will hit that number. This is the first time Vail has limited ticket sales during holiday periods at Park City.
In utah, snowmaking kicked off a few days ago as temps finally lowered. Alta is in full swing for opening on the 24th and Solitude plans to open on the 23rd. Park City and DV are looking okay with snowmaking the last few days. Looking at the temperature forecast, should be some decent snowmaking next week. Probably early december opening on man made with limited terrain.
There was 3-4" today at Alta but there isn't much in the extended range forecast to get excited about:
You need to double-check that the Epic Day Pass doesn't require any sort of lift access reservation. If you're willing to deal with Facebook, I suppose you could ask on the Park City FB Page and see what happens. Or figure out a way to to Chat from the Park City webpage.
Avoiding the typical Colorado destination resorts probably makes good sense for Aussies. Meaning those where people often fly into Denver. Colorado is clearly dealing with the start of another winter season wave.
November 19, 2021
Hockey outbreak cases from other counties push total higher
The number of COVID-19 cases from an outbreak that started with adult and kids hockey games in Aspen two weekends ago rose by more than 50% on Thursday after new cases were reported from a total of six Colorado counties.
www.aspentimes.com
Hockey tournaments were a source for community spread in Vermont last winter. That was one of the New England states that tried to use travel restrictions related to out-of-state travel for essentially the entire 2020-21 ski season. With high vax rates in that region, travel restrictions won't happen for 2021-22. Infection rates and Percent Positive have been rising in Vermont and other New England states, although still generally below most other American regions.
Yes, bought the epic day pass, saved around 50% so thought it was worth while! This trip has evolved since first booked. Originally were to ski Whistler over the weekend,then onto salt lake to see friends who live with beaver mountain then NYC to see my son then back to salt Lake for Park city Presidents week, now doing all our skiing before Preidents week in Salt Lake City area ( ditched Whistler) and Beaver Mountain then onto NY Presidents week holidays.We are skiing Park City for Xmas. The risk is snow at the moment more than anything else
I've been told that accommodation bookings are strong but i doubt you'll have any trouble given the huge amount of services in the area. I would buy the EPIC pass - are you worried of the COVID travel risk or something else?
