1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Advice needed What car to buy for Hotham?

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by Seemonski, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. PG2736

    PG2736 Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Melbourne
    We drive up most weekends. I have a range rover sport fitted with winter tyres and an Audi A4 Allroad. The A4 Allroad for the money (bought as a demo) is a ripping car for everyday use around the city etc and with kids. The boot is massive
     
  2. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Subaru diesel is crap. Do not touch. Or not until there is some evidence that they have sorted or the DPF issues.

    Otherwise subies are great - the most common vehicle of choice for Falls Creek regulars. Hotham regulars were more likely to go for proper 4WD. Although these days they are likely to make you fit chgains anyway so the extra weight of the big 4WD may not mean that you fit chains less often than a subie.
     
    piolet likes this.
  3. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    148
    Location:
    Melbourne
    There is insufficient clearance to fit any diamond pattern snow chains to Skoda Kodiaq (or the new 2019 Volkswagen Tiguan with 18", 19" or 20" wheels) supplied with 235 50 R 19 tyres fitted to 7.5 x 19 ET45 wheels or with 235 45 R 20 tyres fitted to 8.0 x 20 ET41 wheels. Skoda only approve the fitting of snow chains to Skoda Kodiaq fitted 215 65 R 17 tyres on 6.5 x 17 ET 38 wheels. Can supply 3PMSF winter tyres, after market 17 alloy wheels and snow chains to replace the 19” & 20” OE wheel and tyre combination. If diamond pattern snow chains are required the wheels will have to be changed to the 17” size…………
    http://eshop.skoda-auto.com/cz/en/b2c/snow-chains/snow-chains-000091387asx/0/1/24/43/1001
     
  4. Seemonski

    Seemonski First Runs

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    I could go to the Euro price bracket, but don't feel any compulsion to spend more money than I need to :)
     
  5. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Melbourne
    VW Tiguan 162 or Golf R Wagon

    With smaller wheels plus snow tyres
     
  6. Seemonski

    Seemonski First Runs

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nice, but my large dogs need SUV head room for the rest of the year, when I'm not going to the snow.
     
    teckel likes this.
  7. Seemonski

    Seemonski First Runs

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'd love a Tiguan, but really just wanted to take the standard car and use it all year. I don't want to swap wheels twice a year to something that can take snow chains.
     
  8. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,238
    Likes Received:
    26,648
    Location:
    woonona
    Tiguan boot the same size as my Impreza.

    pitiful
     
    piolet likes this.
  9. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,238
    Likes Received:
    26,648
    Location:
    woonona
  10. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,238
    Likes Received:
    26,648
    Location:
    woonona
    Hence why the foz is a good choice
    They are Tall in the boot
     
    Seemonski and piolet like this.
  11. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    750
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hmmm, old Tiguan had a microscopically small boot, but specs for both current models are:

    Tiguan: 985/1746 Seats Up/Down
    Impreza: 345/795 Seats Up/Down
     
  12. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,238
    Likes Received:
    26,648
    Location:
    woonona
    Yeah was the old Tiguan
     
  13. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,669
    Likes Received:
    9,795
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    As a matter of interest, what is the expected shelf life of snow tyres sitting in a hot Aussie garage for 9 months of the year?
     
    coolair likes this.
  14. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,238
    Likes Received:
    26,648
    Location:
    woonona
    Probably the same as a hot Japanese garage.
    **** Japan gets hot in summer
     
  15. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    2,908
    Location:
    Sydney
    How do the snow tyres perform on the long lowland highway approach? Wear ok? No issues??
     
  16. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    Jon ollson thinks the Audi R8 with a pod is far more practical

     
    #66 gareth_oau, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    Hermannator and ShavedBadger like this.
  17. Ripsnorting

    Ripsnorting One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Late model Turbo Foz would suit. Non turbo is gutless.
     
    piolet likes this.
  18. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    It's an every day occurrence in British Columbia and the PNW.

    I'm with you.
     
  19. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Too short to put skis in. They need to bring back the Octavia Scout.
     
    Tanuki likes this.
  20. Gregah

    Gregah One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    314
    Pretty good - I don't really notice anything different on the highway cruise up and back in winter. They do become noticeably soft and squidgy in early October temps though (city driving in Melbourne)...if I get lazy and leave them on too long. I reckon I've driven around 8000-10000km on them and they have lost about 2mm. Not sure if that's good or bad...
     
  21. andrew7

    andrew7 Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 3, 2007
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    castlemaine
    ^ This.

    The new Foz is gutless with a buzzbox CVT (the Impeza more so). Shame they dropped the XT. As above, avoid Subaru diesels due to DPF issues.
     
  22. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    @rugbyskier has got himself a Skoda Octavia wagon and he’s loving that
     
  23. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Location:
    Melburn
    Depending on which side of the bed he gets out of, he might turn up in another from the VAG stables:

    I mean, why even get lift tix? I'm sure @snowtyres can hook you up with the rubber...
     
    ShavedBadger likes this.
  24. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    It would be tough having to make that decision every day.

    Though he also has/had an RS6 - perhaps he sleeps in a triangular bed?
     
    piolet and Hermannator like this.
  25. Scott No Mates Ver 1.1

    Scott No Mates Ver 1.1 Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ford Ranger - Wildtrak Raptor. This puts the U back into SUV. :thumbs:

    Plenty of room in the back for all your gear, versatile, 4WD, reliable diesel (well so far anyway), plenty of room for chain clearance to the wheel arches.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    how comfortable?
    how car like?
    just pipedreaming about a better for vehicle for towing, skiing and other holiday/distance driving (if it was complemented with something small and economic for daily use)
     
  27. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    I can see you have subtly more gap than mine

     
    Seemonski, Jacko4650 and cookieman like this.
  28. Rover

    Rover One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,548
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Front Seat, left hand side
    create a weighted list of whats needed/required/nice to haves. We currently have a 2006 Forester and have had since new. We are trying to source a replacement at the moment and have been for a few years....list we wish to have, Chains to fit front wheels, chain clearance, manual, low roof to reach ski's, higher clearance underneath, petrol, wagon, roof rails.... Trying to tick every box is hard, so a compromise will have to be made. Chains on front wheels is a big one, as a lot of manufactuers now say chains on rears. likewise with lower roof as we drive up each weekend, so reaching up all the time creates a hazard of slipping and damaging side of car. Petrol is a must, as when we come through the valley all the servos are closed, so we cannot access alpine mix. Would prefer a manual so I can choose to hold gears and feed in via the clutch. A low centre of gravity is also important.... hence why I will never look a a large 4WD. The 06 forester we have is awesome, just getting a little small with the kidlets and a little long in the tooth, but it still drives the hill very well
     
    hongomania and currawong like this.
  29. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Amarok instead.
     
    Hully and currawong like this.
  30. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    That's going to be the fly in the ointment.
     
  31. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
     
    CarveMan likes this.
  32. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Chain clearance?
     
  33. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    would need these
     
  34. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    are they not spider chains? verboten at hotham
     
    cqen2l and Karicta like this.
  35. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,613
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    yeah laughable eh - acceptable all over the world (except Hotham)
     
  36. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    12,654
    Likes Received:
    10,607
    Location:
    Newcastle
    The constant sniping at snowtyres bores me.

    Two things snowtyres brings to this forum.

    1. Detailed knowledge of snow rated tyres - a product that is not native or widely understood in this country.
    2. First hand practical experience of which vehicle/wheel/tyre combo's are chain friendly and which are not (along with teckel and a few others who also have extensive experience fitting chains).

    Snowtyres always contributes knowledge respectfully with regards to forum etiquette, never spamming threads and appropriately using Noticeboard sparingly for commercial posts.

    There is also the bit that a lot more people than you assume *are* indeed interested in what performance improvement snow rated tyres have to offer. Plenty of those who have had a frightening loss of control whilst driving an alpine approach with their young children in the back seat will happily do whatever it takes to improve safety next time. Your personal approach to the tradeoff of cost v's benefit is just that, yours. One point of view only. You're welcome to it, you're welcome to express it. Just don't assume for a moment it is the canonically correct point of view.

    Alpine driving experience for the vast majority is low in this country. Regulars here tend to be outliers who have plenty of experience. Those visitors who arrive at these threads (about driving in the snow) from a Google search result are very much interested in snowtyres contributions - just because you have heard it all before does not mean similar contributions are less valuable in new threads - if that was the case we could just shut down the weather forum and let everyone reread season 2002 ad-nauseam.
     
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Driving to the snow has been a critical consideration in every car I have bought since 1986. Not everyone spends as many kms driving to the snow, but it's not just about that. If you want to drive to the snow, get a vehicle that will take chains. If you want to minimise the fuss involved in driving to the snow, get a vehicle taht rarely needs chains - but can take them.

    If getting a car that takes chains isn't important enough, accept that you will be using buses or other transport to get to the snow (at least some of the time)
     
    Ozgirl and Marty_McSly like this.
  38. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    35,989
    Likes Received:
    15,040
    Location:
    On a wave or mountain face near you.
    I love the optimism that 4WD or fitting chains might be required
     
    climberman and piolet like this.
  39. Endless_Winter

    Endless_Winter One of Us

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Getting an AWD/4WD will save you putting on chains when it’s required for 2WD, which is sometimes on the harrietville side, but almost never required on the Omeo side in a 4WD. To me, unless you’re driving up there everyday, a specific set of winter tyres (that are mandatory in winter months in places like northern Japan) seems overkill. The problem is they will wear quickly when it’s warmer, otherwise everyone would drive around in them. It’s not quite so much about the tread pattern, it’s about the rubber. I am about to get some all-terrains for my Toyota 4WD. Goodrich KO2s and falken AT3s have the 3 peak mountain snowflake 3PMSF certification that was mentioned earlier. I’m not sure muddies would be great on icy/snowy blacktop.

    Good clearance from rim to tyre is important for chain fitting. Find out which wheels (front or back) are the correct set to fit, it will be in the owners manual. Putting on chains is easy with a bit of practice, I’m not sure what all the fuss is about. My advice would be to practice it a lot on dry ground in the relative warmth and it will become second nature. If the first time you’re doing it in anger is at 1300m with frozen fingertips in the dark then you’re going to find it difficult. Buy them from hoys (harrietville, Omeo, hotham central, jack frosts) and get them to show you how to put them on and then get them to watch you while you do it to tell you what you are doing wrong.

    As for avoiding diesels, I don’t have a problem with mine, mind you I have an aftermarket fuel pre heater fitted and Toyota diesels seem to have fairly fat fuel lines (some makes have very thin fuel lines which makes them more susceptible to gelling). Do a search on this forum if you need more info, there’s a couple of threads on this.
     
    teckel likes this.
  40. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,514
    Likes Received:
    8,276
    Location:
    Gippsland
    As opposed to Torana or Escort Front Wheel Drive????
     
  41. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    chains always required in the boot for Falls & Hotham
    chains always required in the boot if overnight at Buller
    chains fitted or AWD/4WD at Hotham - more days than not once the snow falls
    chains fitted or AWD/4WD at Falls - not that often but often enough

    the other good thing about AWD/4WD is all the days where chain fitting is mandated for 2WD even though conditions really don't warrant it
     
    teckel and Ozgirl like this.
  42. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,608
    Likes Received:
    4,442
    That would be the Albanian version.
     
  43. kaegee

    kaegee One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,626
    Likes Received:
    3,250
    Location:
    Freshwater
  44. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    The European Escort that was roughly contemporaneous with the Sierra, but not sold here because of Ford Australia's tie up with Mazda, was front wheel drive.
     
  45. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    I don't think you understand what people are saying. The problem that city people have is with DPF's, specifically on Subaru's, when they don't get enough highway running to keep the filter cleaned out. Does your Toyota have a DPF?
     
    currawong likes this.
  46. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    It's not just city people. I know 3 subie diesel owners in Mt Beauty area who have had very expensive DPF problems. They all drive reasonable distances regularly. None of the VW diesel owners have had the problem, not even ones made post the emissions scandal.
     
  47. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    600
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Isn't that because VW didn't bother filtering the diesel in the first place?
     
    climberman likes this.
  48. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    148
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Gareth
    Let me try to explain why spider chains are not accepted at MTH...............

    The GAR at Hotham is the highest road in Australia and, in winter, the most hazardous. There are very few roads in Europe that reach this altitude (1840 meters) that are open 12 months a year 24 hours a day.

    Back in 2013 the MTH RMB CEO issued a ‘determination‘ (duty of care) that required wheel chains to be of a diamond pattern which effectively banned the use of “spider chains” within the MTH resort road area.
    The use of spider chains had become a big problem, and a road safety issue, at MTH because they regularly ‘came off’ the wheels of the vehicles they were fitted to. The determination was instigated to prevent spider chain users having this problem with their vehicle and, more importantly, preventing their problem from causing road access problems for other GAR users.

    In Australia spider chains were selected to overcome the fitting issues when a vehicle did not have sufficient clearance to fit a conventional diamond pattern wheel chains. In almost all cases spider chains were fitted to vehicles fitted with low profile summer tyres. The automatic fitting onto the tyre is a great feature but in all the years that spider chains being available I don’t recall any customer purchasing a set of spider chains fro RCS for this reason.

    The three problem issues with spider chains are
    - clamping of the locating adapter to the nut of the wheel bolt
    - the lack of grip from a summer tyre for location to the chain mesh of the spider chain
    - the percentage of the tyre that is not covered by the spider chain

    The correct clamping of the locating attachment to the wheel nut is an international problem as it all depends on the understanding and ‘mechanical skill’ of the installer.
    This will be highlighted if you do a google search for “k summit problems”

    In Northern Hemisphere markets the locating problems that have been experienced at MTH are not so much of an issue because of the use of winter tyres in winter which replace summer tyres. The same can be said about the amount of the tyre tread that is not covered to wide low profile summer tyres.

    The spider chain, be it a Konig, a Thule or a Rud, is a great product if it is correctly attached when fitted on to the wheel nut and when used on 3PMSF winter tyres that provide the correct location grip.
     
    Jonathan_P, cqen2l and climberman like this.
  49. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,113
    Likes Received:
    14,529
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Quite likely subie were not cheating like vw. Vw had a DPF, they just cheated with the sw so that it emissions were different under test to what it did IRL. I know 2 people at least who have newer vw diesels manufactured after vw had to clean up its act. They have not had dpf problems.
     
  50. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    DPF has nothing to do with regulated emissions, which are HC, NOx and CO.
     
    currawong likes this.