Question What light pattern-base ski touring setup - for distance with some turning too?

rowdyflat

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Also I believe in firm fitting boots and very thin wool blend socks but nylon stockings is silly because plastic boots dont breath, you need a conveyor belt to absorb and transport sweat.
Wet skin increases friction and promotes blisters.
 

snowgum

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As someone who is keen about exercise who is often consulted about fitness and overuse injuries I can agree w Goski ie People spend a lot to get a lighter frame vs losing a bit of rider fat.
1. It is similar w bc skiing we spend 90% of the time climbing and 10% descending so losing some skier fat makes a huge difference.
2. As you get older , contrary to popular belief [ unless you are over 80yo and in a wheelchair} having a house with stairs , which you use many times a day is IMO excellent for climbing and telemarking.
Numbers 1. and 2. have really helped me maintain performance in the last 15 years.
Prior to that I would say it was plastic boots and shaped skis.
Stairs? That’s what I’m lacking!

Fortunately my ‘floating-floor’ rental has two steps, so I’m better off than those slabby rentals! ;) :ski:

It doesn’t help that most of the southeast (Mel) is fairly flat - at least in Glen Eira. Great for distance and speed on a bike. Not so good for climbing strength and cardio?

Oh to be near Kinglake, Arthur’s Seat, Macedon, Kinglake or Mt D, etc…? :thumbs:
 

Goski

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Also I believe in firm fitting boots and very thin wool blend socks but nylon stockings is silly because plastic boots dont breath, you need a conveyor belt to absorb and transport sweat.
Wet skin increases friction and promotes blisters.
I'll be sticking with thin ski socks and losing a couple of kilos of excess body baggage. My wife said "ew" at the notion of wearing knee high nylons for skiing. "They'd stink" she said.
Back to skis and bindings setup, pole weight is a factor in energy consumption for touring and climbing hills but don't get them too light i.e. flimsy. Ski-touring with only one working pole isn't a joy.
 

Roaring40s

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The Voile Vectors and variants are intended for soft snow and are flappy on hard and icy surfaces. The BC versions have a lot of drag given their width. That doesn't bother people since they're not doing kick and glide - they're walking. But if you want to travel efficiently you'll be doing kick and glide.

For typical Australian conditions a waist of 70-80mm is optimal.
 

Goski

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The Voile Vectors and variants are intended for soft snow and are flappy on hard and icy surfaces. The BC versions have a lot of drag given their width. That doesn't bother people since they're not doing kick and glide - they're walking. But if you want to travel efficiently you'll be doing kick and glide.

For typical Australian conditions a waist of 70-80mm is optimal.
So something like Madschu Epoch (replaced the Karhu 10th Mt)? Close to 70mm.
 

Fozzie Bear

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The Voile Vectors and variants are intended for soft snow and are flappy on hard and icy surfaces. The BC versions have a lot of drag given their width. That doesn't bother people since they're not doing kick and glide - they're walking. But if you want to travel efficiently you'll be doing kick and glide.

For typical Australian conditions a waist of 70-80mm is optimal.

Legend after one post. :thumbs: Still using leather boots with pin bindings I gather.
 
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snowgum

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The Voile Vectors and variants are intended for soft snow and are flappy on hard and icy surfaces. The BC versions have a lot of drag given their width. That doesn't bother people since they're not doing kick and glide - they're walking. But if you want to travel efficiently you'll be doing kick and glide.

For typical Australian conditions a waist of 70-80mm is optimal.
What about in soft Aussie spring afternoons, especially in Victoria where the north facing snow can be a slurry? On these days, a bit of width, shape and rocker all help to a turn happening.

Most of those wider Madshus skis, while wider and more shapely than my toothpick Morottos, don’t exactly scream BC turns or float on slush? But for a mix of set trails and some off piste giggles they’re fine (still to test this segment - obviously)?
 
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telecrag

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I find the Vectors kick and glide OK, no race craft, but OK, certainly not walking on them. They are a bit of a handful at times, like bumpy ice, and breakable crust, but hey. Fantastic in soft, and spring corn. Bit of drag from the pattern, but if you go steep, you don't notice it.
 

snowgum

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I find the Vectors kick and glide OK, no race craft, but OK, certainly not walking on them. They are a bit of a handful at times, like bumpy ice, and breakable crust, but hey. Fantastic in soft, and spring corn. Bit of drag from the pattern, but if you go steep, you don't notice it.
Yeah, most patterns are barely noticeable once airborn?. Jump teles anyone?
(Where’s Steve Crazy when we need you?). :ski:

 
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telecrag

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(Where’s Steve Crazy when we need you?). :ski:
Was so hoping to catch a slide with him this season, he moved FT to Jindy. Got a couple of runs with a Tahoe guy, I cant really keep up with people at that level, but I can hang on well enough to see some shit, its sooo cool!
 
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telecrag

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80mm is fine IMO, Im used to around 95 now, rare to find anyone enjoying more than around 100 in OZ for sure. I had fun this season before I bought my new skis, on some old ones, around 80mm at best, they still ski fine.

The arguments about weight, speed, I fall back on, skates, or even classic xc, if covering ground is your bag.
 

snowgum

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80mm is fine IMO, Im used to around 95 now, rare to find anyone enjoying more than around 100 in OZ for sure. I had fun this season before I bought my new skis, on some old ones, around 80mm at best, they still ski fine.

The arguments about weight, speed, I fall back on, skates, or even classic xc, if covering ground is your bag.

Fwiw: As @Telemark Phat indicated, those Objective BC skis (link below) look like a nice mid-width touring ski, with less weight and width than the UltraVectors. Unfortunately, they’re only made in the ultra-light spec and so only invented for AT bindings. Maybe one day Voile might revise these models to be strong enough for tele binders?

They top out at 178, which for us larger chaps, is getting marginal in a light touring model.

 
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telecrag

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Just epoxy in some demon nuts, they’ll be fine! I had to do that with some atomic that had a weird foam core, after I ripped the bindings off. It’s just about warranty.
 

skifree

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Maybe one day Voile might revise these models to be strong enough for tele binders

Yeah, I would not be too fussed by this. I had a pair of Vectors that I ran with M2.0s on inserts, last time I saw them they were still all in one piece.

The cores in the modern Voile stuff I have seen; like most light skis; were really soft, may as well have been soft (it comes in a broad range of grades) balsa wood. So you end up relying on the top sheet to hold the bindings in. And decent install should, once seeing how gutless the core and top sheet are, should involve liberal use of epoxy.

The other part to the equation is bindings like the M and 22D (with their nicely standard 6 hole pattern) now have more fixings further apart than the of G3/BD pattern and that helps a lot. But a ski builder does not know if you are going to put a rattrap, G3 or a Superloop or a M3 or Lynx on the ski and issues just a blanket escape clause for binding pull outs.
 
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snowgum

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Yeah, I would not be too fussed by this. I had a pair of Vectors that I ran with M2.0s on inserts, last time I saw them they were still all in one piece.

The cores in the modern Voile stuff I have seen; like most light skis; were really soft, may as well have been soft (it comes in a broad range of grades) balsa wood. So you end up relying on the top sheet to hold the bindings in. And decent install should, once seeing how gutless the core and top sheet are, should involve liberal use of epoxy.

The other part to the equation is bindings like the M and 22D (with their nicely standard 6 hole pattern) now have more fixings further apart than the of G3/BD pattern and that helps a lot. But a ski builder does not know if you are going to put a rattrap, G3 or a Superloop or a M3 or Lynx on the ski and issues just a blanket escape clause for binding pull outs.
Not an expert Skifree but I agree with your sentiments. 22D are pretty bomber by all accounts and 6 main fixing points should be superior to 3 or 4.

With that in mind, once happy with my Voiles, I may yet go to inserts. I’ve just received my Lynx, they look like a decent bit of kit. They’d go well with a light ski like the UVs. Gradual evolution….?
 
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snowgum

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For anyone interested in Scarpa touring boots (it’s a long summer if not heading to the northern winter), the following page might worth a look.

‘Should’ a new Scarpa NTN boot (ever) arrive, I’d expect they’d build on their AT technology (I’m still learning!) It’s clearly much easier to make lightweight boots without bellows!

F1:

Touring range:

FYI: when looking at the F1, It’s worth clicking through to the technology section (image below is a screen shot of that link).
B23A75A0-0208-412E-B76C-E7BD05B2FB1B.png

 

rowdyflat

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For anyone interested in Scarpa touring boots (it’s a long summer if not heading to the northern winter), the following page might worth a look.

‘Should’ a new Scarpa NTN boot (ever) arrive, I’d expect they’d build on their AT technology (I’m still learning!) It’s clearly much easier to make lightweight boots without bellows!

F1:

Touring range:

FYI: when looking at the F1, It’s worth clicking through to the technology section (image below is a screen shot of that link).
B23A75A0-0208-412E-B76C-E7BD05B2FB1B.png

I feel like I am repeating myself but touring boots are IMO the holy grail .
Nothing else about telemarking needs fixing , bindings and skis are great.
I would be perfectly happy with a stripped down T4 , one buckle across the foot , power strap across the ankle , no forward lean lock [ I took mine off its bullshit for touring ], skeletonise the ankle cuff , minimalist heat moldable liner and reduce the sole to half the thickness.
The most technical part, the bellows could be left alone and I reckon the boot could be down to 1100 g for size 9.
I would do it to mine but the sole would be too difficult to cut .

Anyone who wants a bigger heavier boot is 30 yo or needs some lessons.
 
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snowgum

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I feel like I am repeating myself but touring boots are IMO the holy grail .
Nothing else about telemarking needs fixing , bindings and skis are great.
I would be perfectly happy with a stripped down T4 , one buckle across the foot , power strap across the ankle , no forward lean , skeletonise the ankle cuff , minimalist heat moldable liner and reduce the sole to half the thickness.
The most technical part, the bellows could be left alone and I reckon the boot could be down to 1100 g for size 9.
I would do it to mine but the sole would be too difficult to cut .

Anyone who wants a bigger heavier boot is 30 yo or needs some lessons.
“But Sir, if only it was that simple?” :blb:
 
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