What possesses people to pass on the road to falls?

polarnomad

First Runs
Jun 21, 2012
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Was great to see the dogs last night.
Shame a peanut in a land cruiser flat bed 4WD with P plates passing on a blind corner almost stopped me and my boys getting there.
Do what the rest of us do, WAIT!
 

MarkGC

One of Youse
Ski Pass
Jul 28, 2010
3,235
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Overtaking on any road to a ski field makes little sense. "look i got the car park 3 spaces before yours!"
 

polarnomad

First Runs
Jun 21, 2012
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Too much of a hurry to get off the mountain, hopefully he will wonder just how he missed next time........... and not do it!
 

skiflat

Old n' Crusty
Aug 10, 1999
37,708
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Unfortunately these people never seem to learn until something happens!
 

skiflat

Old n' Crusty
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Exactly, and welcome to the Forums too
smile.gif
 
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Hully

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Don't overtake in dumb/dangerous situations...but nearly as importantly, pull over and let others pass.
 

ocker

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Feb 28, 2002
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IMO the road is more dangerous now than 40 years ago when it was a dirt road with more traffic as there was much less accommodation in Falls Creek and a much greater percentage of skiers staying in Mount Beauty.
The reasons.
1. A much higher percentage of selfish inconsiderate drivers who refuse to pull aside and let the build up of traffic behind, even after they are tooted and have their lights flashed.
2. A higher percentage of first timers who now go to the snow, due to the churn factor in the Australian industry. In the 1970's many skiers went 15 days a year, year after year and drove the road every day. Now the keen skiers are off overseas after a couple of seasons, with more drivers visiting the resort who have never driven in the snow before and hardly ever driven on a winding mountain road before. There have always been the first timers who never get above 50km p/h and hit the brakes on every corner there are just a higher percentage of them now.
3. The majority of drivers today are less skilled at passing on country and mountain roads. Forty years ago the Hume was a two lane road with few overtaking lanes. Drivers knew how to pass, left gaps for people to pass and helped people pass. These days you can get six cars close behind someone doing 40 KPH all the way up or down the mountain and anyone who wants to pass has to pass seven cars at once, creating a very dangerous situation.

I absolutely have no problem with drivers traveling at 40 KHP if that is what they are comfortable with. I have a problem when they do not look in their rear mirror and pull aside to let a build up pass It will only take 10 seconds each time and only add a couple of minutes to their trip, but will half the trip time of those behind them. To pull aside and let more experienced drivers pass, is safer for the snow driver and everyone else, is common courtesy and the law.
I have recently spoken to the Falls Creek police about how dangerous the lack of courtesy has become and I have since noticed them pulling drivers up who are not letting people pass.
There are many bays on the road to Falls Creek to pull aside and let others pass. What I am pushing for is to have signs erected to remind drivers to snow this courtesy and to obey the law in this regard before someone is killed partly as a result of selfish inconsiderate by the slow drivers as well as impatience by the passing driver.
 

Auska

Hard Yards
Aug 3, 2004
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Hear hear Ocker

There are so many inconsiderate drivers who do not pull over and let faster drivers past.

If the police are enforcing/reminding drivers on the BHP road of this courtesy, then this is a good thing.
 

BilbyBill

One of Us
Apr 27, 2001
918
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Tawonga, Australia.
And there are those who use the road as practice for the next Grand Prix, cutting corners, driving on the wrong side of the road, and overtaking any car that happens to be in front.
 

CarveMan

I Never Slice
Ski Pass
May 12, 2000
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I'm with Ocker.

If you're holding up traffic, pull over.

It's not your role as a driver to determine the speed & progress of others.

What may be white knuckle territory for you could be completely normal for experienced drivers who do the trip weekly or even daily.

PG summed up the situation perfectly in this post: https://www.ski.com.au/xf/posts/496100#Post496100

PG said:
Yes, I too am curious what goes through people's heads when they are holding up about 100 cars across 50 km of winding roads.

I think it comes down to the phenomenon of being 'incompetant and unaware'. It was the title of a psychological journal paper that got passed around the lab a few years ago at Uni. Basically, the more stupid you are, the less aware you are of your own stupidity. The paper analysed the results of students sitting an exam against their actual results, and found that the smart students tended to underestimate their own ability, while the dumber ones overestimated it.

When you apply this to a driving scenario, e.g. Great Ocean Road... the reason why a slow car holding up 45 cars won't use the parking bays... despite the fact that there are big signs saying 'Slow traffic please pull over'... is because they think they are right on the edge of adhesion and pushing the limit in a way that would shame Schumacher himself... and therefore anyone else trying to overtake them is clearly out of control and a deadly risk to society.

The other explanation of course, is that these people are just selfish arce holes.

Or a combination of both....
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
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ocker said:
To pull aside and let more experienced drivers pass, is safer for the snow driver and everyone else, is common courtesy and the law.
I have read the national road rules. There is no such law. Unless there is a local rule.
Patience and leaving with time to spare is the answer.
 
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CarveMan

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It may not be the law, but it's certainly courtesy and practiced by some (but of course not all) at Buller. We generally make good time up the hill but will always pull over for faster cars at the next safest opportunity.
 

wannaski

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May 28, 2005
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CarveMan said:
It may not be the law, but it's certainly courtesy and practiced by some (but of course not all) at Buller. We generally make good time up the hill but will always pull over for faster cars at the next safest opportunity.

Who want's to drive with a car right up their tail anyway- let them go past, less stress for everyone!
 
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CarveMan

I Never Slice
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wannaski said:
Who want's to drive with a car right up their tail anyway- let them go past, less stress for everyone!

Too right.

Unfortunately some drivers see being overtaken as an affront to their clearly superior vehicle and driving skills and will veil their not letting you past with a self-righteous 'safety message' which is ultimately crap.
 
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wannaski

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CarveMan said:
wannaski said:
Who want's to drive with a car right up their tail anyway- let them go past, less stress for everyone!

Too right.

Unfortunately some drivers see being overtaken as an affront to their clearly superior vehicle and driving skills and will veil their not letting you past with a self-righteous 'safety message' which is ultimately crap.


thumbsup.gif
 
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polarnomad

First Runs
Jun 21, 2012
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Lets face it, if you dont want to drive on an alpine road or cant, take the bus.
Being considerate of each other doesn't cost anyone anything on the road or the mountain.
As always some will do the right thing and some wont.
 

VSG

Crayon Master
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Jan 1, 1998
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It has always been this way in mountain driving.

Teenagers, early 20 somethings, with way too much enthusiasm and very little consideration for others. The pursuit of speed and risk should be confined to the slopes but when you are young you don't see it that way.

Let them go. Don't try to block them or slow them up.

smile.gif
 
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currawong

Old but not so Crusty
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there a handful of places on the Falls road where it is safe to pass (assuming no oncoming traffic). otherwise wait patiently. however, there does need to be more done to educate people that the right thing to do is pull over for faster traffic. some people will always be selfish pricks, but I think many people don't realise that this is mountain etiquette. locals nearly all pull over. there are heaps of little spots where you can pull over, or even just slow and indicate on a little straight where there is room. I'd like to see big signs that say something like "Considerate drivers pull over for faster traffic"
 

pansnow

First Runs
Jul 5, 2008
138
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Adelaide
What is the most common car that overtakes and ends of the road in a ditch a 4WD. One of problems is also some people who drive AWD or 4WD cars think that have all the grip in the world and don,t need chains. It dosn,t matter if you have 4Wd or 6wd once you hit a patch of ice at high speed you are gone. You have to drive for conditions. I have been on the road to the NSW resorts between canberra and cooma in the early morning in thick pea soup fog with visblity so bad you could hardely see the guide posts on the side of the road. You guessed it idiots overtaking over crests and curves at about 130km/h and no lights on we were sitting on the speed limit of about 100 km/h. Now that is crazy.
 

qwill

not in the bunker
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Jun 18, 2010
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There is a real element of (unintentional?) humour in this thread. 30km of road, varying speed limits of 80, 60 and 40 km/h, so driving at the limit when you can might get you there a few minutes before someone rolling along 10 or so under the limit. Chill, slow down and enjoy the scenic drive instead of tailgating/beeping/flashing lights. geez.
 

Ulmerhutte

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VSG said:
It has always been this way in mountain driving.

Teenagers, early 20 somethings, with way too much enthusiasm and very little consideration for others. The pursuit of speed and risk should be confined to the slopes but when you are young you don't see it that way.

Let them go. Don't try to block them or slow them up.

smile.gif


Yup, much prefer to have them in front of me.


Conversely, the most-observed selfish and slow drivers seem to tourists rubber-necking in Tarago and similar people movers.
 
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main street

Doing what I want.
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Coming down from Hotham SIC I let several morons with death wishes pass.... happy to let them go too.

& ES and I were in her Merc coupe that was more than capable of holding its own.... but what would that achieve aside from having ES throw up all over me ?? (big night at the SIC dinner...)
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
Ski Pass
Sep 17, 2003
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I find that one of the worse things about being stuck behind someone slow is that it makes the drive less smooth. As a passenger, I am much more likely to feel queasy when following a slow vehicle than when +1 is setting own pace. This is even when +1 is trying to be smooth.
 

fx 140 ski freek

Hard Yards
Jul 12, 2001
990
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everyone who wants to drive the alpine roads should head over to bali for some driver ed
they would have to be the most paitent and considerate road users on the planet and for the life of me there seems to be bugger all road rules!!
 

Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
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AstroSki66 said:
ocker said:
To pull aside and let more experienced drivers pass, is safer for the snow driver and everyone else, is common courtesy and the law.
I have read the national road rules. There is no such law. Unless there is a local rule.
Patience and leaving with time to spare is the answer.
CarveMan said:
It may not be the law, but it's certainly courtesy and practiced by some (but of course not all) at Buller. We generally make good time up the hill but will always pull over for faster cars at the next safest opportunity.
Just don't want some uneducated, coming up behind peeps, beeping horn, flashing lights, thinking they have the law on their side.
Common courtesy is a given. Ill informed is dangerous.
 
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qwill

not in the bunker
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main street said:
Coming down from Hotham SIC I let several morons with death wishes pass.... happy to let them go too.

& ES and I were in her Merc coupe that was more than capable of holding its own.... but what would that achieve aside from having ES throw up all over me ?? (big night at the SIC dinner...)

Does SS know about ES? Can I be there when you tell her?
rofl.gif
 
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Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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I'm surprised this season cp to last at how few slower drivers are pulling over to allow a queue to pass.

Of course there are no signs suggesting it so I figure it's a critical mass thing. They don't see it modelled, they don't do it themselves.

I like to drive the road fast but smooth. Know it inside out. It's exercising a skill. Not a matter of a few minutes more or less.

...

Makes me wonder whether there's still a law in Vic. that says it's illegal to accelerate when you're being overtaken. The number of times that happens, despite lights flashed and then horn tooted ...
 
B

Brushtail_Possum

Guest
Ineresting thing happened on the way up to Falls about 3 weeks ago. Was making reasonable speed up the mountain but a build up of cars started behind me just before I got to the one overtaking lane, I slowed down, pulled over to the left in the overtaking area and only one out of 4 cars passed making use of the extra lane. The rest then proceeded sit right on my rear bumper then got the glares from them at the ticket booth even after waving them past at the next opportunity where I could see. WTF? Am I missing something here?
 

Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
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laugh.gif
.

You're missing the 'herd mentality' or 'driver auto-pilot effect'.
 
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dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
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qwill said:
There is a real element of (unintentional?) humour in this thread. 30km of road, varying speed limits of 80, 60 and 40 km/h, so driving at the limit when you can might get you there a few minutes before someone rolling along 10 or so under the limit. Chill, slow down and enjoy the scenic drive instead of tailgating/beeping/flashing lights. geez.

….. and after all that slow meandering car queue anger is allowed to fester and seethe one arrives at …….. Flat Creek

Oh the irony
 
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weerab

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I was driving up behind a very slow small sedan last week. I'm not a fast driver and he was going considerably slower than me. An RACV van comes up behind me so I pulled over at first op. The little sedan, however, just kept on plodding along probably blithely unaware of the RACV guy!
 

Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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It'd be good to have two horn options. One, modest = "Note, I'm behind you and looking to pass". 2nd to rattle ear drums good and proper!

Some drivers I pass prob. think I'm crazy (the toots I get would suggest so) ... but there are techniques to mtn driving. Eg. with a bend into a gully when on the inside of it, you look across the gully and up the road. If the view is clear, you're good to go.

The only upside of the fires up here has been to improve that view for a while.

2nd tip: it takes less time to overtake if you maintain your approach speed to a slower vehicle. If you slow down and have to regain that with acceleration, change down and get on the throttle hard.

3rd tip: remember where the easy overtaking stretches are and wait for them.

IMO the worst drivers there are not the slow ones. They're the ones who crawl around the corners but get on the throttle on the straights. I leave these incompetents to themselves.
 
B

Brushtail_Possum

Guest
Ziggy said:
laugh.gif
.

You're missing the 'herd mentality' or 'driver auto-pilot effect'.

You are onto something here!!

What do people think about the truckies/ bus driver signal of flashing your right hand indicator a couple of times to let someone know its clear to pass?

I do always pull over BTW to let others through. I was startled last time that not everyone took the opportunity
 
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Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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The risk with that is that they might actually be intending to turn right!

OK, not many options to do that on the Falls Ck road; with a truck, maybe a couple.

And regardless, you're relying on them to judge for you the passing distance. So you're putting yourself in their hands. Not for me thanks.

...

Good of you to provide that courtesy and I hope it catches on.

I do the same. No skin off my nose. It's not a race.
 

EquatorBunny

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May 30, 2011
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I think that some sign-posts along the road could to be helpful to suggest slow drivers to give way, which is non-existence on way to Falls.
New drivers including P-platers and tourists could benefit from this.
I gave way because I don't like the car behind real close to me, plus I like enjoying the view too.
 

teckel

"I'm not a cat"
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Wouldn't work. All up the Black Spur are signs saying "Please consider those following" and at most opportunities to pull over, there are signs saying "Slow driver turn out", yet only about 1% of slow drivers ever pull over.
 

Megs

Hard Yards
Mar 22, 2006
301
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I went up to Falls Creek on the weekend for the first time in many years and I was shocked at the driving! Granted I am not the fastest driver on the planet (I am far from being the slowest also) but I can certainly recognise an idiot when I see one flying by. I pulled over and let these fools go by... I didn't need the extra pressure at 12:30 in the morning. My goal was to simply get there safely with a vomit free car. Even when these fools (who apparently "know" these roads) can quite clearly see that there is no where to pull over they still remain fair square up your a$$ - I know you are on a mission - I am too. Just be smart about it. Applying that pressure isn't going to help someone who is doing their best on a road that they are unfamiliar with. Don't get me wrong - I'm not someone who putt putts up the hill and I think that this is what shocked me the most. Karma was hilarious to watch 10 minutes up the road... the most aggressive of the drivers was pulled over with his passenger mate hanging out of the car throwing up all down the side of his shiny BMW... I will admit to having a laugh at that!
 

Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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I think that some sign-posts along the road could to be helpful to suggest slow drivers to give way, which is non-existence on way to Falls.
New drivers including P-platers and tourists could benefit from this.
I gave way because I don't like the car behind real close to me, plus I like enjoying the view too.

Yes, yes and yes.

...

I have to confess to some summer driving mischief on that road, coming down, years ago.

A driver tail-gating, with no flashing of headlights or tooting or attempt to overtake. I was going pretty fast; he was just doing a 'Duel' movie thing, bullying me.

On the last decreasing-radius turn I went in hard and he stayed on auto-pilot and barely escaped going wide and launching off the edge.
 
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gettingtooold

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Last on the road weekend before last. I drive not too fast (or slow) Pulled over a couple of times with cars behind me and was surprised to find that few cars passed me and I was behind them in no time. After driving up the hills over many years I actually think that more people are considerate and sensible than in the past. It only takes one [auto-flamin-censor] to ruin the drive
 

2Planks

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My favourite is the clowns you meet coming the other way using half (or more) of your lane around corners.
Arrogant disreard for other road users or just crap driving skills?
 

EquatorBunny

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gettingtooold said:
I drive not too fast (or slow) Pulled over a couple of times with cars behind me and was surprised to find that few cars passed me and I was behind them in no time.

^This. I don't understand. I don't mind it when they passed and disappeared, but when they reappear right in front and get me to slow down...that's when I avenge!
EvilGrin.gif
 
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gettingtooold

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One thing that does P me off are 4wd vehicles driving when 2wd have to fit chains. Some of those drivers are nuts !They seem to think they are immune to sliding off the road after extensive experience of city driving. Having driven front wheel drive vehicls fitted with chains and seeing some of the ways
these idiots pass me I constantly shake my head with disbelief
 

polarnomad

First Runs
Jun 21, 2012
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Heh, some great comments here, no doubt the expressions here are seen on the roads. Please remember just one thing whether you are fast or slow, good driver or shitty driver, in a 4WD or 2WD, a P plate or not, you pass on a blind corner you will one day die or kill someone. Just smile and keep going if we all do that it would be a better place. The only thing that stopped me turning around was my kids, and while at the time i would have seemed right, it would not have been a good idea!
 

Scott No Mates

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I've done the road several times both winter & summer, day & night. Yes, there are idiots going in both directions. 4WD are classics (esp when they don't believe that they need chains and have to stop at the entry gates).

I just take it easy nowadays (I'm hard pressed to hit 80 kmh in many places on the uphill). I'm not the slowest and may pass others but I am also quite happy to sit behind someone who may not be travelling at break-neck speed.
 
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