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What's in the Pack for Heading Out the Back (Gate)

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Spence, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    Sorry if this exists elsewhere (I haven't been back through all the pages in the sub-forum.Mods please feel free to merge). As a soon to be Japow newbie I have been putting together some kit for Japan powder days (fingers and toes crossed).Boot packing out the gates rather than back country tours. In particular what type of pack and what to carry. So far I have got:
    Black Diamond Dawn Patrol 25l pack
    Pieps DSP Sport Avi beacon
    BD Transfer 3 shovel
    BD Quickdraw Probe 280
    BD Avalung Element (mostly to give my wife a little bit of peace of mind. She has also made me check that my life insurance is up to date ;))
    BD head torch (and spare batteries)
    What else should I carry on day trips?
    Usually always have a multitool in my pack for adjustments and repairs.
    First Aid Kit (I'm always conflicted about how much FA I should carry.Advice please)
    Some extra clothing: Beenie, fleece gloves, mid layer. Other?)
    Snack bars
    Water? (again never sure one way or the other with this)
    Those of you with experience of heading out the gates I'd love to know what you carry and why. And I guess what you don't carry and why? Any little tips that make the experience more enjoyable but may not be strictly necessary? (I always have a packet gummy snakes/babies or M&M's on me. Candy shell stops the chocolate from melting. I think these may have once saved a life. Stuck in a chair for 4 hours in a blizzard in Austria. Guy next to me on the chair in a bad way. Shared my M&M's with him. Probably just enough of a moral boost to hold the hyperthermia off for long enough until rescue).
    Look forward to hearing your advice and tips.
     
  2. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Duct tape & cable ties for fixing shyte. Duct tape wrapped around ski pole just below handle.
     
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  3. blowfin

    blowfin One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Probably 1-2L of water.
    Maybe a Bivy Bag or space blanket?

    Is all that stuff going to fit in a pack that size? I've been using a 20L AK for a few years now on Aussie day trips, but it's actually a real struggle fitting beacon, shovel, probe, jacket/skins, food, goggles in there. Currently It's not a suitable pack for say, heading out to the western faces, where I'd want to add even more stuff (Axe/Crampons/Bivy). So I'm seriously thinking of upgrading to a 35L (Exped Glissade) pack. The extra capacity is also great when you use it as a carry on.
     
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  4. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    I usually have about half a metre of duct tape wrapped around an old store card (Bunnings card or similar) in a small repair kit. Hadn’t thought of cable ties. Good idea.
     
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  5. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    I’ve looked at Bivy bags. I wasn’t sure if that was a bit over the top. Are they worth carrying in your opinion for short trips? I guess like any emergency equipment it’s great to when you need it. The backpack I bought has a separate compartment for avi gear. And a top goggles and snacks compartment. I think it also can take a water bladder. I need to check that. Heard that freezing up can be an issue. I never have bothered with taking water before but Japan is new to me so not sure how often I will have access to mountain restaurants during the course of the day. I’m going with some friends who go every year. They are all snowboarders and maybe a little lose. I’m a fair bit older than them and on skis. I don’t want to be over cautious but I do want to be prepared properly.
     
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  6. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Chemical hand warmers.
    Put them in armpits and the groin for hypothermia.
     
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  7. blowfin

    blowfin One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It really depends on the terrain you'll be tackling. Sounds like it's just going to be a bit of bootpacking not too far from the resorts? So probably not. Water is probably about the same, if you're just booting for 30 minutes or something and then skiing back to the resort then just take a bottle or something. You can stuff your pockets with all sorts of goodies from the konbinis.
     
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  8. TJ

    TJ One of Us

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    A few meters of rope. I have the flat webbed style. Light weight. Had to pull it out twice to assist people. I only carry a small bottle of water as I'm a snow eater :) Hypothermia is your biggest risk after avalanche. Space blanket as Blowfin mentioned and warmers as Untele-whippet said. The ability to be able to stay warm is paramount.
     
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  9. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve just started to carry rope.
    And new bit of kit for this season is a SAM splint - thanks to advice from @Ozgirl

    Hopefully never need it for me, but trying to be a good Girl Scout.
     
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  10. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep! The Sam split is what greatly assisted me when I did my knee in NZ.

    Splint is a great way to stabilize and therefore reduce pain.
     
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  11. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    I do have a SAM splint in my FA kit. Actually came in a specialist snake bite kit that I adapted. Still a bit bulky and I’ve often thought I’m overdoing it a bit. As none of my on snow buddy’s bother with first aid sometimes I doubt myself. I have done a few first aid courses over the years so it’s probably more front of mind for me than the others. I guess I’m screwed if I’m the one that gets injured :(

    How many metres of rope? And what gauge? I guess a couple of karabiner’s would make the rope more useful as well.
     
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  12. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m also thinking through the biners and a lightweight harness. It’ll evolve.
     
  13. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    I use karabiners at work quite a bit. We do a fair amount of work rigging lights,speakers and projectors from overhead truss. I find it’s safer not to assume that the guys on the ground know how to tie hitch knots (I’ve seen some shockers). A karabiner on the line eliminates any doubt. If you’re throwing a rescue line to someone probably best to assume that they either can’t or are unable to tie a suitable knot.
    You definitely got me thinking about a light weight harness. Maybe an indoor climbing one?
    I’m going to look into that.
     
  14. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    My current harness is a bit bulky. PB has a nice little mountaineering one the you don’t have to step into, clips at the legs. I reckon that’s be the go. Especially if you’re hauling someone who is hurt.
     
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  15. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    Just occurred to me that another good reason to carry some rope is to be able to utilise your avi shovel as a rescue sled. I need to find a video of how to do this but it is the reason that the shovels have the holes in the corners apparently.
     
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  16. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Share if you find it huh?
    I’m gonna do my AST2 course this Northern Season, but I reckon a specific patrol first aid course would be awesome for those of us interested. Will be keeping my eye out for something suitable in future.
     
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  17. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Gerber Bear Grylls Ultimate Survival Kit just stays in pack from summer hiking and includes some useful gear and blanket, plus its tiny. I also have a pair of bungy cords as they can assist with a number of things. Rope is something I keep thinking on as a great idea and never get around to. However I would most probably be using the rope to pull my wife out of the deep POW when she gets stuck with her snowboard on flat areas :D
     
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  18. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I haven't got around to it yet but I always thought that people who had spare gloves in their pack had the right idea. Getting wet gloves or losing a glove is a nightmare. Issue now is my 20L camelbak phantom is full and due to most of my off-piste not being a long-way from resort and riding lots of lifts I don't want to get a bigger pack.
     
  19. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    Invest in AST1 training at a minimum before leaving resort. Preferably decent 1st aid training too. People die in avalanches here reasonably regularly, the risk is real.

    In addition to the ideas above if you are not buying a splitboard set up and booting it, buy snowshoes at a minimum. Snow is deep here and traveling any distance is VERY difficult in just boots. You will quickly get exhausted. Then what is in your pack could become critical to your survival.
     
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  20. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    Can snow shoes be used with ski boots)hybrids with walk mode)? Can you recommend a male and model?
     
  21. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    You can do the ASPA course,
     
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  22. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would fold it into third and slot it in my breast pock, you know the mesh one inside your jacket?

    For others this is a vid on the sam splint.

     
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  23. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    But that’s where the skins go.
     
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  24. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not in my jacket they don’t. They’re too big and my jackets too small!
     
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  25. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    You need a nuu jacket & nuu skins.:)
     
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  26. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you are bootpacking up from a resort gate and likely to be out for a few hours I would suggest:

    - a bottle of water
    - your beacon, probe and shovel
    - a mobile phone (store the local emergency numbers and look at loading a mapping program like Gaia)
    - some lighter weight gloves for when you are climbing and a spare pair of gloves
    - sunglasses to interchange with your goggles
    - a cap or beanie to interchange with your helmet if you use one
    - something warm to add to your clothing layers like a down vest in case you get stuck out for a bit
    - a few compact first aid items like some adhesive tape, pain killers and a small foil emergency blanket
    - a longish Voile strap and a little bit of duct tape
    - your favourite M&M's
    - a couple of mates

    If you are boarding consider taking snow shoes if you might need to climb out of an awkward spot through unconsolidated snow. If skiing and you have some kind of touring bindings consider taking skins for the same risk.

    If going out for longer take more food and some extra water.

    Do a practice pack beforehand to make sure it all fits in your backpack. Also ensure there is cold beer available for when you finish.
     
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  27. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Parachute cord.
    lite n strong.
    have knots at regular intervals comes in very handy for the McGiver biz , cutting suspect cornice...
     
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  28. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bivvy bag.
    part of my kit.
    got mine locally tho.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Outdoor-Emergency-Warm-Sleeping-Bag-Bivvy-Survival-Camping-Blanket-Sleeping-Bag/293100971503?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=fc859a0ee6e349a7a9eaa2aeff8378b0&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=12&mehot=ag&sd=264424149269&itm=293100971503&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
     
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  29. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Surely a triangular bandage is a smarter choice than panadol? Not really that sure of how tape will help. Foil blanket yes.
     
  30. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It has a light side and a dark side. It holds the universe together.
     
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  31. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If you are keen to start spending time out of the resort, consider some frame bindings and a set of climbing skins. These will be enough to get you out of trouble. As Pete says, finding you way through deep snow is VERY difficult and energy sapping.
     
  32. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    I have put Shift bindings on my powder skis. Moment Wild Cats 184 (116w). I haven’t bought skins yet. I’ve been reading up on them but there is so much choice it becomes confusing. Mohair or blend? Glad for any recommendations for my ski width.
     
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  33. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    As far as width goes, you buy them wide enough for the shovel and then trim to suit your skis. I believe new skins will probably come with a trimming tool.
     
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  34. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    Sorry Spence I only ski spring slush on resort so cant help you there. As you are a skier, like others have pointed out, some touring bindings or similar and skins will be your best friend.
     
  35. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Personally I find a small roll of tape (Leukosilk) quite handy for blister protection or holding blister dressings in place. Being a wimp I also like to take pain killers if need be. I also usually carry a small elastic bandage. I used to carry a triangular one but eventually deleted it as they are a bit bulky and I figured a normal bandage is more versatile and you can improvise a sling with other gear.

    If one was going further afield than a boot packing foray some more group kit could be useful. Depending on the circumstances I will sometimes take much bulkier and other items like a bothy bag, a Sam splint, an Alpine Threadworks rescue sled with two 5m lengths of 6mm rope and a please come and get me EPIRB. Fortunately I've never had to use any of these items except for the bothy bag. These look stupid but are actually really good for getting warm if the weather has turned to custard.
     
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  36. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Instead of bandaids I like to carry a few pieces of Nervoderm (lignocaine patch) and some rock tape strips. Versatile to use over a nasty blister to make it pain free and protected, or repair a broken boot with the tape, or tape over a bruised knuckle or bite/sting.
     
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  37. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've used all sorts of skins and prefer Mohair. They seem to climb fine and slide with less friction than blend or Nylon. They are also more compact when folded up and a bit lighter. Coltex is a good brand if you can find them. Pomoca, Black Diamond and G3 are good too. Nylon or blended Nylon and Mohair climb a bit better and are a bit tougher. It's usually best to buy a pair that are as wide as the widest part of your skis. Then use the trim tool to cut them to size which is easy to do.
     
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  38. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    Thanks Slowman. Contour skins also seem to get a good wrap. Should I consider those as well?
     
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  39. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  40. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    Thanks for the list Slowman. I’ve got to look up Voile strap. Some great advice in this thread. Just what I was looking for.
     
  41. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    If a full blown bivvy bag is overkill look at the SOL emergency bivvy, or a bothy bag. I carry an SOL here for day trips, etc, but haven’t been to Japan.
     
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  42. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you want a harness as a backup/rescue/emergency kit, all of the standard styles are too bulky and heavy. Look for a proper lightweight one, eg:
    Altitude by Petzl (150gm)
    Ortles by Salewa (165gm)
    Alp Racing by CAMP (92gm)

    The CAMP one is very very compact also.

    All the above are rated for the type of use you are talking about.
     
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  43. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Mohair isnt supposed to have the longevity of a pure synthetic skin, but i reckon the glue goes off long before the actual skins wear out. I bought my first momix skins this year and were impressed by the weight and more compact size, would def recommend. I also think the drop in climbing performance is way less noticeable than the increased glide.
     
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  44. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Also as stated above, sunnies and lightweight gloves a must. Don't want to sweat on the climbs then freeze on the summit
     
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  45. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    And OR waterproof mitt shells, are bombproof if it all goes pear shaped
     
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  46. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes. I think DPSDriver might have a bit to do with Contour skins.
    I have been using Contour hybrid split skins for awhile now. I don’t skin a lot but Ihaven’t had a problem with them and the glue system they have is very user friendly.
    The split skins are versatile in that they can fit a range of ski widths and are much lighter when used with wider skis.
     
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  47. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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  48. essjaywhy

    essjaywhy One of Us

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    fully charged cell , local emergency #s
    with topos pre-loaded, often a paper map
    extreme pain killers, 1st aid
    PLB
    lite down jacket, 2nd gloves, balaclava, sunglasses + goggles
    altitude and air pressure watch
    mini biv bag
    multi tool, torch
    helmet, removeable ear muffs
    rope is good idea given the peeps ive seen in the creeks
    wallet
    & attitude
     
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  49. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    Yes, make sure you have coins or 1000 yen notes for the beer from the vending machine and the onsen on the way back :)
     
  50. essjaywhy

    essjaywhy One of Us

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    Exactly,
    plus receipts from AACUK for SAR , plus international medical insurance
     
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