Which resort has progressed the most in the last 20 years

Donza

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Freedom chair- Opens Guthega to people who hate T
interceptor = Modern family
V -8 (in the night garden)
 
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kaegee

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Surprised Hotham doesn't get a small mention here . Haven't skied it in a very long time. But all the new stuff including and past Marys Slide . We used to walk tho a gate and up the hill to have it to ourselves all day. Only seen the new lifts on the map.
 

absentskier

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Surprised Hotham doesn't get a small mention here . Haven't skied it in a very long time. But all the new stuff including and past Marys Slide . We used to walk tho a gate and up the hill to have it to ourselves all day. Only seen the new lifts on the map.
Mate the OP suggested it was Hotham!!!
 

Tanuki

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My first time at Thredbo was a few weeks ago. Very impressed with the upper mountain terrain, unique and beautiful. Honestly, the lifts felt old, tired and slow.
 
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Ramshead

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Thredbo has 3 fast quads on the terrain that matters. Perisher has slow chairs on its best runs - at Guthega, Ridge at Blue Cow, and Mt P. Longer runs served by fast lifts is always my number one priority when I buy an expensive Australian lift ticket. For this reason Thredbo gets my money even though it hasn't done that much to its infrastructure in 20 years. (And also because it is a vastly superior mountain to the strange assortment of scraggy hills which make up Perisher)

My second favourite Aussie Hill, Hotham, also suffers from slow chair syndrome BTW. Was interested to note when I went to Europe skiing for the first time this year that punters look VERY unfavourably upon resorts without fast chairs.
 
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sbm

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My first time at Thredbo was a few weeks ago. Very impressed with the upper mountain terrain, unique and beautiful. Honestly, the lifts felt old, tired and slow.

Seriously!?! Kosci Express/Crackenback absolutely destroys any other single lift in the country for vertical, speed, terrain accessed, lap-a-bility, and the queue's never even really that bad!

I mean what are you comparing it to? Mt Perisher double? Heavenly Valley quad? Lol. Only lift that comes close in Aus/NZ might be the summit six at Mt Hutt.
 

The Snow Gauge

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But wasn't the question asked which one has progressed? Thredbo is great when it is on for Australia but you wouldn't actually say it has progressed other than snowmaking in last 20 years since Cruiser/Alpine Centre development.
 

Annabuzzy

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I do sing the praises of its snowmaking. Absolutely. It's great. Add Dream Run and it would be even better, plus improve the skiing experience at that end of the resort immeasurably. But It's a comparison. PB has caught up on snowmaking. Other than the laudable snowmaking expansion I can't think of anything material Thredbo has done for the on mountain experience in 20 years.

They do need to stop resting on their laurels.
 
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snowgum

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Ramshead, I think I feel the same about Old slow chairs in Oz but some smart people here understand fast Quads don't move more people per hour, they just move them faster on more widely spaced chairs.

What tends to be ignored is that Detachables help people load/unload with les stuff ups (ie. Kids, oldies, snowboards? Etc...) so in theory they can run at close to max capacity rather continually stopping (I highlight Summit & Big D at Hotham as classic examples). Of course good, sharp are like gold in moving crowds and forming groups of 3/4 etc....
 
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telecrag

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Actually i was trying to think back to before the RFID, only a few years ago really. Ticket checkers were fun. But it must have been slower?
 
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Annabuzzy

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Pulling the friggin' season pass out of your jacket each time you went through a lift. Yuck.
 

dawooduck

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PB, Thredbo

1398293506748.jpg
 

blackice

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Seriously!?! Kosci Express/Crackenback absolutely destroys any other single lift in the country for vertical, speed, terrain accessed, lap-a-bility, and the queue's never even really that bad!

I mean what are you comparing it to? Mt Perisher double? Heavenly Valley quad? Lol. Only lift that comes close in Aus/NZ might be the summit six at Mt Hutt.

Unfortunately most of the bottom half is unsociable for most of the season

EDIT : unskiable even

EDIT 2 : awesome lift in summer though
 
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Ramshead

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Ramshead, I think I feel the same about Old slow chairs in Oz but some smart people here understand fast Quads don't move more people per hour, they just move them faster on more widely spaced chairs.

What tends to be ignored is that Detachables help people load/unload with les stuff ups (ie. Kids, oldies, snowboards? Etc...) so in theory they can run at close to max capacity rather continually stopping (I highlight Summit & Big D at Hotham as classic examples). Of course good, sharp are like gold in moving crowds and forming groups of 3/4 etc....
Yknow, it never occurred to me that chair spacing on fast lifts mean no greater capacity, and therefore no real direct benefit for the resort. Except there is an indirect benefit for them which is that serious riders will go there for fast lifts.
Having said all this, yeah, Thredbo could do a thing or two. But no golf course bowl lift!!! Keep it pure!
 

Tonester

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Yeah, but it all feels old! And they only put 3 RFID gates on Freedom!

I hate all the resorts, capitalist bastards taking my socialist dollars!

Looks like I am skiing Perisher (the dark side) on Sunday. If you see an idiot trying to tele, say gidday!
They've got 4 on the freedom now. But why, oh why, only three on Pleasant Valley?!?! Surely one RFID gate can't be all that expensive.

There is one thing that Thredbo do better than Perisher, IMHO...anf that's lift queue management. It's hit and miss at Perisher.

So, Perisher, if you're reading this.....use some of those Vail dollars in getting more lift line bollards and someone with enough gumption to actually marshall people into fours (or twos) like the cattle that they are!
 

ausi ski bum

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Its sad to say 20 years ago Falls Creek had this grand plan to put lifts on Mt McKay and Rocky Knolls, develop the bowl area with a gondola from near gebi's and much more.

Today the new areas never happened, we lost Headwater and Link lift areas so it actually got smaller (although we did gain some ground with Drovers Dream lift. The bowl area which should have always been the main game at FC is virtually dead and we got a monstrosity built in the car park killing off all the properties behind it.

I love Falls Creek but since the Drovers Dream lift, not a lot has happened.
 

gettingtooold

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re: FC. Not a progression IMO but the recent monstrosity built certainly happened with a major impact. As to whether positive or not is open to debate.
 

Hunter

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Its sad to say 20 years ago Falls Creek had this grand plan to put lifts on Mt McKay and Rocky Knolls, develop the bowl area with a gondola from near gebi's and much more.

Today the new areas never happened, we lost Headwater and Link lift areas so it actually got smaller (although we did gain some ground with Drovers Dream lift. The bowl area which should have always been the main game at FC is virtually dead and we got a monstrosity built in the car park killing off all the properties behind it.

I love Falls Creek but since the Drovers Dream lift, not a lot has happened.

I guess from a business point of view would the resort be turning a greater profit now inspite of not having to spend money on that infrastructure.
If so the owners may well think they did the right thing ?
 

Hunter

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Buller spoken little about but they have slowly chipped away at snowmaking expansion and securing more terrain from bad seasons rather than big lift expansion although they have replaced some.
If you have area to expand into like Buller this is the best way to improve the resort I believe.
They need to get that new dam in and get snowmaking on SS ASAP
 

DbSki

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I think Punters fits skiing well.
It's always a gamble on the right conditions, some days you win, some days you loose,
 

FixedGrip

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You need to vote on a range of factors and see which hill comes out ahead:

Snowmaking?
Lift infrastructure?
Pricing/packages?
Village services?
Social media effectiveness?
Summer infrastructure?
 

Kletterer

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Resort improvements are not always conducive to a better experience for skiers of ALL abilities. What good are new lifts on terrain you never ski on ?
 

DbSki

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Resort improvements are not always conducive to a better experience for skiers of ALL abilities. What good are new lifts on terrain you never ski on ?

You are suggesting no-one will improve their skiing enough to ever be able to ski on a new run.
 

Kletterer

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You are suggesting no-one will improve their skiing enough to ever be able to ski on a new run.
No. It has been a long time since advanced skiers have had something new and exciting to look forward to in NSW Resorts though IMO
 

snowgum

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No. It has been a long time since advanced skiers have had something new and exciting to look forward to in NSW Resorts though IMO

I think that's called NZ or perhaps at a stretch Japan. Advanced skiers seen as two few in no. rusted on?? And not worth catering to.

Mind you I could start a can of worms by saying why add to resort costs by creating parks and pipes but I realistically this market has grown a lot in recent years and at least appears to be more of a trendy marketing tool than advanced skiers/riders with beards and backpacks defying Mary's Slide etc...
So best not to start down that line.

I think having one lift company owning Hotham and Falls does kibosh much of the so called competition in Vic. I guess as a pair they compete with Buller to a degree but the trip purposes an duration tend to be different. Falls won't develop advanced areas while the owner has Hotham which in return is pretty relaxed about village-feel, providing more Greeny-light blue runs and summer activities as Falls has them in abundance.

So sorry, I love Vic skiing but I'm not confident that these major Falls/Hotham plans will start for the 5 maybe even ten years. Looks like we're being encouraged to sample NZ again soon?
 

Annabuzzy

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Ski resorts don't just compete domestically with other resorts of course. They also compete with offshore resorts. And they don't just compete with ski resorts domestically and internationally - there's competition generally for the leisure dollar. They need to keep investing to just keep their share of the market, let alone grow it.

Thredbo is overdue for new on- mountain development.
 

snowgum

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Ski resorts don't just compete domestically with other resorts of course. They also compete with offshore resorts. And they don't just compete with ski resorts domestically and internationally - there's competition generally for the leisure dollar. They need to keep investing to just keep their share of the market, let alone grow it.

Thredbo is overdue for new on- mountain development.

Well as they say AB: absence makes the heart grow fonder!
 

sly_karma

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Advanced terrain is a funny thing. It's correct to state that those who can properly enjoy and indeed seek out advanced/expert terrain are a pretty small portion of a resort's customer base, and also true that these folks spend less per visit because they don't buy lessons, do buy a season pass or have connections to get free/discounted tickets and accoms. But.... marketing people understand the power of aspiration. Marketing hype around new advanced terrain is actually intended to attract intermediates and families who fancy themselves a bit and are willing to have a go; ie, most of the skier/boarder population. Those folks might only go into the Extreme Steep Deep Zone once or twice on their holiday, but it may well have been what caused them to pull the trigger on that trip in the first place.
 

Annabuzzy

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I went on a group lesson this year where most of the group seemed to treat the exercise as a "black bagging" exercise. They'd have been better off doing laps on High Noon or Supertrail improving technique, but ended up spending most of their time waiting for someone to pick up their skis and put them back on as they all fell over quite a lot.

Just reinforcing sly karma's point here. Quite obviously the aspiration element was strong with this group - to bag blacks.
 

Kletterer

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I went on a group lesson this year where most of the group seemed to treat the exercise as a "black bagging" exercise. They'd have been better off doing laps on High Noon or Supertrail improving technique, but ended up spending most of their time waiting for someone to pick up their skis and put them back on as they all fell over quite a lot.

Just reinforcing sly karma's point here. Quite obviously the aspiration element was strong with this group - to bag blacks.
Yes. Some folks overstate their ability. Can be a problem in slowing a group down
 

Rush

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Those folks might only go into the Extreme Steep Deep Zone once or twice on their holiday, but it may well have been what caused them to pull the trigger on that trip in the first place.
It never ceases to amaze me how many skiers with big mountain phats skis at Hotham are content to do laps of Heavenly all day...

...not that I'm complaining as I can still find lift-accessed freshies in the Extreme Zone days after the last snowfall.
 
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blackice

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It may have been mentioned and apologies for not reading every post if it has.

In addition to @Donza 's comments PB opened new terrain in Double Trouble and Devils Playground in the last 20 years. Although it's not directly lifted, Double Trouble and the couple of trails down from BC to Guthega are a significant area.
 

Donza

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It may have been mentioned and apologies for not reading every post if it has.

In addition to @Donza 's comments PB opened new terrain in Double Trouble and Devils Playground in the last 20 years. Although it's not directly lifted, Double Trouble and the couple of trails down from BC to Guthega are a significant area.
Yeah ... even though its not recognized the PV trail to Guthega has been widened and cleared a bit.
They also groom to full breadth 8-10 cats ... where as last year was a 2 cat pass.
 
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Snow Blowey

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I went on a group lesson this year where most of the group seemed to treat the exercise as a "black bagging" exercise. They'd have been better off doing laps on High Noon or Supertrail improving technique, but ended up spending most of their time waiting for someone to pick up their skis and put them back on as they all fell over quite a lot.

Just reinforcing sly karma's point here. Quite obviously the aspiration element was strong with this group - to bag blacks.

Perhaps why you are still doing lessons? If you are not falling over lots you are not trying anything new. IMO. You need to keep challenging yourself.
 

DPS Driver

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I love Thredbo and to be honest it doesn't need to change. It has vertical.

Now we did put the new chair in to replace the old Ramshead chair. Ooops no we never actually did that. We did the upgrade to VT. Ooops again, we didn't quite get that one off the ground yet. Yeah the Friday Flat development, oh hang on, does that fall into the last 20 years or did it happen prior. I can't remember it'd be close. new carpet in The Keller, no, don't think they've ever changed that. They moved the bottle shop.

They fixed the toilets at Merrits, nah that didn't happen.

OK you win Perisher.

I still prefer to ski at Thredbo.
 

Annabuzzy

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Perhaps why you are still doing lessons? If you are not falling over lots you are not trying anything new. IMO. You need to keep challenging yourself.
I do lessons to improve.

I'm not talking myself up because I'm just an average advanced recreational skier but that particular group was a bit below my ability.

The thing of it is I injured my knee just before the season started (left lateral medial meniscus tear). I could ski, I just couldn't fall over. I booked in a number of group lessons and indeed I still have 2 to use. The first priority was to do a 2pm group lesson, which would typically be a private or semi private, and was great. That's not always feasible though with family commitments. If not I slotted myself in the one below top group in the morning because I wanted to stick to groomers (because of the need to nurse my injury).

That particular lesson I just went with the group flow even if it was to terrain I had been avoiding. As it was I was fine but they struggled!

Incidentally I think my knee has all but fully recovered. That's good. I just wish it occurred earlier.
 
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