Why does Perisher hate those who stay overnight on the mountain?

Retro2

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For those of you in Sydney wanting to drive down at night to Perisher after work from Sydney a few tips.

1) If you are aiming to leave early from work and ski the day after be aware that the 10 minute ride up on the train is a whopping $136 return because you didn't buy a lift pass that day you naughty person. This will get you back however within the next two weeks. This means for example if you five people on board and use it to get up there this will cost you a total of $680 AND you still then need to load from car to train to station to oversnow. Drive up and you can load from car to oversnow.
2) The train stops at 8pm at night during the week. 10pm Fri and Sat night.
3) You can drive to Perisher at night and unload gear but you can't leave your car there overnight despite the fact that Perisher is huge and spread out and you want to get up early and move it the next morning so you can go skiing.
4) You can drive back down to Sawpit Ck and park there but there is no way of getting back up the hill. Note that there aren't ANY shuttle buses day or night to assist you parking at Sawpit Ck - I'm guessing that "assists" everyone in using the train "for their convenience".
5) In essence Perisher have made it virtually impossible for anyone to get to a lodge after the last train thereby excluding all Sydneysiders wanting to drive down after work to ski the next day. If you do leave early and plan to ski the next day you can then enjoy a special price for a 10 minute ride on the train despite the fact that you will then be spending all your coins in Perisher anyway. How friendly!
6) By contrast, you can arrive at Thredbo at any time and walk back to your lodge after parking a vehicle 24/7.
7) Hitch-hiking to and from Sawpit Ck is really your only option. Nothing like getting back to your backpacking days when you are parting with thousands of dollars to spend a week in the snow is there?

Sorry Perisher - but you clearly are not interested in having lodge users arriving after 8pm at all and making it as hard as possible to drive up so you can unload and get rid of your vehicle. This is all quite bizarre because what you CAN do is put 5 people in a car, drive up as a day tripper with a packed lunch, spend nothing, don't ski, clog up the day carpark and drive back out all for the cost of one car entry into the National Park. Is that really who you want to attract? Unbelievable.

I wish I had known this before I bought into my lodge up there!
So Lodge had no parking , our. Lodge is short on parks and we do use Sawpit , but cars in sludge have to ferry folk around
It works .people come from Sydney every Saturday and ski Sunday ?
 

cornice12

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Sep 2, 2021
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has anybody mentioned yet how much the luggage restrictions have expanded to capture a lot of the timetable too?
even when it is running, it's far harder to use the tube for overnight stays than it used to be.
 
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Marty McSly

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It works .people come from Sydney every Saturday and ski Sunday ?
He's talking arriving Friday night...


images - 2021-05-12T175101.130.jpeg
 
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Tonester

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has anybody mentioned yet how much the luggage restrictions have expanded to capture a lot of the timetable too?
even when it is running, it's far harder to use the tube for overnight stays than it used to be.
yes, but please explain those loaded trolleys on the downhill train during afternoon peak. Staff don't seem too interested to enforce it.
 

Retro2

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He's talking arriving Friday night...


images - 2021-05-12T175101.130.jpeg
So what ! No difference , in our lodge , this'd with the 4 cars parked would have the responsibility of getting him back to lodge . It's a very fair thing to do
Our changeover is Saturday ..
And yes I have been in both sides of that coin .. great pics but a little overdone on the critic , maybe in line with the weather !!
Nearly gone ... time for skiing agsin soon enough .. So glad I have another week
How long for you ?
 

skifree

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Had to put my ski jacket and aprés boots on to walk to the bog. The boots aren't as waterproof as I thought they were. Looks like I need to get some DWR or something.

Wellington boots, big tall ones.
 
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snowgum

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The time the Skitube is running is the next problem.

The solution is very simple. Perisher have a licence (lease) from NPWS (the Government) to run a ski resort.

There would have to be a clause in the 2-300p agreement about ‘maintaining reliable public access to the resort’ - this would include the SkiTube.

So with public access clearly struggling, Parks need to revisit their agreement and lean on Perisher to improve the ST timetabling.

It can’t be that hard - all the infrastructure is there (unlike say Vic, which is Hotchpotch)

Perisher can’t claim a few extra trains (say half-hourly to ~ midnight, Friday & Saturday) will send them broke. Covid aside they always make a profit and there’s a public-interest case here for maintaining ‘reasonable public access’. Closing ‘early’ on key changeover days contravenes the principle of reasonable access.

If a portion of the car park remained open to overnight visitors, then the Perisher defence would be stronger. But to me (layperson) Perisher’s case is week. Pathetic actually!

It might be a case of all the vested Stakeholders joining forces to pressure Parks to pressure Perisher.
I understand that’s usually a very frustrating and fruitless path but it seems a cause worth fighting for.

A lodge that’s difficult to access isn’t much good. Vic lodge owners would definitely be kicking up if access after ~ 10pm was virtually impossible.
 

sbm_

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Lack of elevation, mostly LOL
Ya joke, but it was a 100% conscious planning decision by Tony Sponar to site Thredbo village below the snow line, he was reacting to the cost, difficulty and elitism of accessing the snowbound chalets and huts of the time, like the Charlotte Pass chalet, Albina hutt, i guess the early Perisher lodges, and Hotham.

Speaking of Hotham, that history thread is amazing, if hitching from Sawpit Creek sounds bad, how about the options of either hiking up Bon Accord spur in the dark, or an icy double-black-diamond ski traverse across Mt Blowhard ridge!!!! Followed by skinning over the summit!?
 

sbm_

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But to be constructive yeah I've always thought artificially difficult access for Perisher and Charlotte Pass was silly.

Please just plow the roads like normal people already. Keep general overnight parking restricted, sure, but providing limited vehicle permits for lodges to pick up or shuttle their own guests.
 

snowgum

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But to be constructive yeah I've always thought artificially difficult access for Perisher and Charlotte Pass was silly.

Please just plow the roads like normal people already. Keep general overnight parking restricted, sure, but providing limited vehicle permits for lodges to pick up or shuttle their own guests.

It can’t be that hard can it?

I’d be more in favour of retaining CP oversnow if they charged somewhat less than $120 return to travel with gear to my lodge (September). It seems blatant gouging and Parks have undersold public accessibility in favour of private sector profits.

Oh well, the price you pay for a good onsnow experience?
 

Deanski

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It can’t be that hard can it?

I’d be more in favour of retaining CP oversnow if they charged somewhat less than $120 return to travel with gear to my lodge (September). It seems blatant gouging and Parks have undersold public accessibility in favour of private sector profits.

Oh well, the price you pay for a good onsnow experience?
No offence, but a highly priced, good onsnow experience for a ski holiday is not 1 x chairlift, 1x T-bar and 1 x Poma. Lovely little village, my parents had shares in Alitji when we were kids and it was great for learning, but once you cna throw a few turns together the skiing experience is about as exciting as Friday flats.
 

snowgum

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No offence, but a highly priced, good onsnow experience for a ski holiday is not 1 x chairlift, 1x T-bar and 1 x Poma. Lovely little village, my parents had shares in Alitji when we were kids and it was great for learning, but once you cna throw a few turns together the skiing experience is about as exciting as Friday flats.

Interesting view Deanski,

Fwiw: my gang are ski touring most days, we might take 1 or 2 ‘break’ days n lift at CP or Perisher.

I don’t really see oversnow (that can take 8-10 people at a time) is worth ~ $5 pppkm.

It’s a rort pure and simple - yes the proprietors should be able to make a fair profit. But a pure gouge, with NPWS blessing, er no!
 
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skifree

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Interesting view Deanski,

Fwiw: my gang are ski touring most days, we might take 1 or 2 ‘break’ days n lift at CP or Perisher.

I don’t really see oversnow (that can take 8-10 people at a time) is worth ~ $5 pppkm.

It’s a rort pure and simple - yes the proprietors should be able to make a fair profit. But a pure gouge, with NPWS blessing, er no!

I think you underestimate the running costs of these things.
 

DidSurfNowSki

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No offence, but a highly priced, good onsnow experience for a ski holiday is not 1 x chairlift, 1x T-bar and 1 x Poma. Lovely little village, my parents had shares in Alitji when we were kids and it was great for learning, but once you cna throw a few turns together the skiing experience is about as exciting as Friday flats.
Elevator waves hello

:wave:
 
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Aractus

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For those of you in Sydney wanting to drive down at night to Perisher after work from Sydney a few tips.

1) whine
2) whine
3) whine
4) whine
5) whine
6) whine
7) whine

Whine whine whine!

Skitube addon for Epic was $99 I believe if you purchased early, surely that represents a good deal for someone staying in a Thredbo lodge as well as people who intend to stay up in Perisher?

Vail just manages the resort. The Road is Transport NSW and the carpark is NPWS. If you drive up and arrive at midnight after it's been snowing, there's every chance the road will not be ploughed and will be impassable to even reach the carpark. Skitube is what it is, public transport in Canberra is just as bad if you want to get to work at times that don't suit them, or god-forbid go over the border.

Of course planning is required if you're taking a ski holiday - why should that come as a surprise?

If you want the premium experience, why not go to KT instead?

But to be constructive yeah I've always thought artificially difficult access for Perisher and Charlotte Pass was silly.

Please just plow the roads like normal people already. Keep general overnight parking restricted, sure, but providing limited vehicle permits for lodges to pick up or shuttle their own guests.

They 100% should plough the road, if not to CP then at least up to Eyre. CP only has a tiny carpark mind you so it's not like that would allow a lot of access to it via road anyway. The only reason why they don't do this is the Park Access - someone would have to go up there and check (or they could be smart and just install a boom gate at the Perisher exit and have someone check vehicles there).
 

Chookfooter

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Oh goody, another pile on Perisher/NPWS thread, can I play too.
First up, there is overnight parking at Perisher and at Smiggins, the only places you can't park are the car parks, for clearing, and the roads, which is normal practice in lots of places. You can park anywhere else you like. It has been this way since time immemorial, so if you can't cope now that's your problem.
They looked at keeping the roads open around Perisher in the naughties, but they they picked a big snow year and realised it wasn't worth the expense.
When the RTA took over the road from the NPWS they couldn't believe how much it cost to keep a road open that doesn't go anywhere, as in not a through road, so don't expect them to clear the road towards CP any further. They aren't interested and CP likes it that way.
 

climberman

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Oh goody, another pile on Perisher/NPWS thread, can I play too.
First up, there is overnight parking at Perisher and at Smiggins, the only places you can't park are the car parks, for clearing, and the roads, which is normal practice in lots of places. You can park anywhere else you like. It has been this way since time immemorial, so if you can't cope now that's your problem.
They looked at keeping the roads open around Perisher in the naughties, but they they picked a big snow year and realised it wasn't worth the expense.
When the RTA took over the road from the NPWS they couldn't believe how much it cost to keep a road open that doesn't go anywhere, as in not a through road, so don't expect them to clear the road towards CP any further. They aren't interested and CP likes it that way.
I like your summary!
 

bluestick

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It can’t be that hard can it?

I’d be more in favour of retaining CP oversnow if they charged somewhat less than $120 return to travel with gear to my lodge (September). It seems blatant gouging and Parks have undersold public accessibility in favour of private sector profits.

Oh well, the price you pay for a good onsnow experience?
It’s not really that hard to skip the oversnow and tour ski to CP. it’s a great trip. Tow a sled /toboggan if needed, or send one person up with all the gear. You need only touring gear at CP anyway.
 

Telemark Phat

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It can’t be that hard can it?

I’d be more in favour of retaining CP oversnow if they charged somewhat less than $120 return to travel with gear to my lodge (September). It seems blatant gouging and Parks have undersold public accessibility in favour of private sector profits.

Oh well, the price you pay for a good onsnow experience?
They've sold it for the convenience of only managing one licensee.
 
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snowgum

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Oh goody, another pile on Perisher/NPWS thread, can I play too.
First up, there is overnight parking at Perisher and at Smiggins, the only places you can't park are the car parks, for clearing, and the roads, which is normal practice in lots of places. You can park anywhere else you like. It has been this way since time immemorial, so if you can't cope now that's your problem.
They looked at keeping the roads open around Perisher in the naughties, but they they picked a big snow year and realised it wasn't worth the expense.
When the RTA took over the road from the NPWS they couldn't believe how much it cost to keep a road open that doesn't go anywhere, as in not a through road, so don't expect them to clear the road towards CP any further. They aren't interested and CP likes it that way.
That’s so very ‘Orstrayan’.

Do as little as possible, charge as much as possible.
It’s not really that hard to skip the oversnow and tour ski to CP. it’s a great trip. Tow a sled /toboggan if needed, or send one person up with all the gear. You need only touring gear at CP anyway.

Nah I’m taking tour and alpine gear - I may do the CP lifts which at $99 in September look pretty reasonable.

I’d suggest if CP are selling one day packs P- CP rtn with lifts a meal and a drink, there’s quite a bit of cross subsidising.

But hey, it there no profit, the contractor would bail and Parks would probably say it’s too hard?
 

snowgum

A Local
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That’s so very ‘Orstrayan’.

Do as little as possible, charge as much as possible.


Nah I’m taking tour and alpine gear - I may do the CP lifts which at $99 in September look pretty reasonable.

I’d suggest if CP are selling one day packs P- CP rtn with lifts a meal and a drink, there’s quite a bit of cross subsidising.

But hey, it there no profit, the contractor would bail and Parks would probably say it’s too hard?
I meant to type $139 for a day ‘pack’ above - looks good value c/w just transport .
 

snowgum

A Local
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Ya joke, but it was a 100% conscious planning decision by Tony Sponar to site Thredbo village below the snow line, he was reacting to the cost, difficulty and elitism of accessing the snowbound chalets and huts of the time, like the Charlotte Pass chalet, Albina hutt, i guess the early Perisher lodges, and Hotham.

Speaking of Hotham, that history thread is amazing, if hitching from Sawpit Creek sounds bad, how about the options of either hiking up Bon Accord spur in the dark, or an icy double-black-diamond ski traverse across Mt Blowhard ridge!!!! Followed by skinning over the summit!?

What about taking horses to part way above the snow line, then sending them down the the hill to trek on foot?

AFAICR, none of the fancy modern cuttings we use on the GAR today were in existence in the pre-car days.

It must have been hell in one of those Hotham 100Kmh gales, with a whiteout and often, near-blizzard conditions.

Nothing in Alpine NSW (public roads) comes close - that’s a good thing. :cool::thumbs:
 

Coollhand

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Aug 3, 2022
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@Coollhand The issue is not a "Perisher" issue as we clarified earlier, it is a NPWS issue.

So, in that sense, you can blame your lodge for not providing parking.

On the Skitube costs, if you have an Epic pass, buying Skitube add-on day tickets for your up day and down day is cheaper than the open return.
The lodge has parking, but because Perisher refuse to clear snow and close the road you can't get to the parking spaces.
 

Seafm

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The lodge has parking, but because Perisher refuse to clear snow and close the road you can't get to the parking spaces.
I didn't know that and any lodges at Perisher provided parking. The access to many of them is up and down hills and it would be a major exercise trying to keep them clear and probably a nightmare to drive on. As others have said road clearing is done by the npws and is only cleared to the Perisher car park. I assume this has been the case since the dawn of time. Good thing you didn't want to drive to Charlotte Pass as well. Just park your car at bullocks flat and take the train up and you won't have to dig your car out of the built up snow either.
 

Gumbo

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I wouldn’t think it’s a pile on. The skitube did operate later hours. It’s understandable that through covid the hours of operation be reduced. But now we are operating at full belt the normal operating hours should be reinstated. It’s not just Perisher that have used Covid as an excuse to cut some services. It’s been a common excuse used by many and it needs to be called out. If a business wants to reduce its services it’s well within its right to but is should bot be using covid as its reason.
 

Marty McSly

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Skitube overnight ops have always seemed a bit odd to me. They used to run all night or on demand on certain nights. Other nights were maintenance nights, no tube after 1.20am or thereabouts. In 2012 the Hilltop Hoods played The Station. On a Skitube maintenance night. I gave a lift to a young couple who were staff at The Eiger where I was staying. They wanted to socialise with mates after the show finished, but there was FA time to spare to get the last train, so I had to chase them out.

Oddly, one of the Perisher/Smiggins shuttle buses was there to pick up people staying on snow. But it wasn't publicised very well ahead of time.
 

GlenH

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I found the 2018 Skitube timetable:


The footnotes read:

  • #On Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights, trains operate on an hourly basis on request between Bullocks Flat and Perisher Valley from 8:00pm to 1:00am the following morning. Train requests may be made in person at Bullocks Flat or by courtesy phone from Perisher Valley Skitube Terminal.
  • *Please note there are no train services between 2:00am and 5:00am on these mornings for reason of safety inspections.
  • On Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, trains operate on an hourly basis on request between Bullocks Flat and Perisher Valley from 8:00pm to 6:00am the following morning. Train requests should be made as per the above procedure.
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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I didn't know that and any lodges at Perisher provided parking. The access to many of them is up and down hills and it would be a major exercise trying to keep them clear and probably a nightmare to drive on. As others have said road clearing is done by the npws and is only cleared to the Perisher car park. I assume this has been the case since the dawn of time. Good thing you didn't want to drive to Charlotte Pass as well. Just park your car at bullocks flat and take the train up and you won't have to dig your car out of the built up snow either.
About 25 years ago NPWS required all Perisher lodges to build parking pads. They get no winter use because they are covered in snow.

I doubt that TfNSW have any responsibility for the dirt tracks. That will be NPWS or Perisher.
 
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snowgum

A Local
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About 25 years ago NPWS required all Perisher lodges to build parking pads. They get no winter use because they are covered in snow.

I doubt that TfNSW have any responsibility for the dirt tracks. That will be NPWS or Perisher.
This sounds like a Mexican stand-off with no particular body wanting t claim ownership of the problem, just waiting for the other bodies to claim responsibility and fund the service.

It’s not so different to the constant State/Fed Health & Hospital funding wrangle.

But somewhere in the Perisher lease it should state who does what for each service?

Or is it a ‘modern loophole’ to be exploited by the 3 bodies - and some lodges?
 
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