Question Wild horse removal Bogong High Plains

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Chaeron, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Ziggy likes this.
  2. Undies

    Undies Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    17,772
    Likes Received:
    8,598
    Voted. Let’s hope they can get some progress on cleaning things up.
     
    Charlie, piolet and Chaeron like this.
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Anyone who votes in favour will be presented with a brumby to rehome :p
     
    Vanders, Zeroz, Telemark Phat and 5 others like this.
  4. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage
    Moderator Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    28,696
    Likes Received:
    10,706
  5. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    @Majikthise - got it in one. Only culling is effective and cost-effective.

    Newspapers and uninformed city voters who like pictures of cute horses and who don’t like guns won’t get it.

    When people capture these horses it’s been shown that many end up euthanased within a year or so in any case.

    Unromantic...
     
  6. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    23,128
    Likes Received:
    15,892
  7. GS

    GS A Local
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    8,319
    Likes Received:
    6,622
    Hope they also put deer in the spotlight
     
  8. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    They’ve actively been culling deer on the BHP - notices posted up & saw a shooter up there a fortnight ago.
     
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Yes. There's deer shooting going on by rec shooters in one or two NP areas authorised by PV.
     
    GS and Chaeron like this.
  10. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 28, 2000
    Messages:
    14,505
    Likes Received:
    13,217
    I have completed survey, didn't see anything about being a Victorian to complete..?
    I really would like to see traditional land owners involved in these types of considerations, but I am unsure of how much involvement and influence they currently have. Any one?
     
    telecrag, Belly and Chaeron like this.
  11. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    8,953
    My ex hated the French because they ate horses.

    Curiously, I don't hold the same prejudices.
     
    zac150 likes this.
  12. Donzah

    Donzah Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    16,046
    Likes Received:
    12,870
    I quite like horse meat... raw
     
    LMB likes this.
  13. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    17,981
    Likes Received:
    6,432
    With sauce or just salt & pepper?
     
  14. Donzah

    Donzah Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    16,046
    Likes Received:
    12,870
    sashimi
     
    skifree and Chaeron like this.
  15. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    17,981
    Likes Received:
    6,432
    So what’s the soy mix for that?
     
  16. Donzah

    Donzah Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    16,046
    Likes Received:
    12,870
    ?
    neat
     
  17. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    17,981
    Likes Received:
    6,432
    :thumbs:
     
  18. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    53,557
    Likes Received:
    19,014
     
    Charlie and Untele-whippet like this.
  19. Donzah

    Donzah Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    16,046
    Likes Received:
    12,870
    Post that on Jindy Noticeboard
     
  20. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    53,557
    Likes Received:
    19,014
    LOL ... I did when the subject first got a mention.

    #heritageiconicwonthewar

    this sort of stuff tends to turn people away ....

     
    #20 dawooduck, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  21. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    9,489
    They've been shooting deer, goats, pigs, dogs, cats and rabbits in KNP for years (I presume Vic is the same). You don't hear about it because there aren't people campaigning for those animals to not be shot (except for maybe PETA). The biggest problem for Deer Management in NSW is that they are legally Game, instead of being legally Feral. Its much harder to conduct coordinated control without the law on your side.
     
    Majikthise, Chaeron and POW_hungry like this.
  22. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    9,489
    The best sausage I ate in Germany was horse blood and tongue sausage.
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    The recreational shooters in Vic chase deer for free where authorised by Parksvic but the trouble is that they concentrate on stags for the antlers.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    Volunteer hunters are being used on BHP for a few years to control deer to some small effect. Then the pros came in, who are all ex-military, and the numbers soared but still not enough to account for yearly birth rate. The volunteers cost money as well but are less effective.
    This draft plan is for all Alpine areas and shooting is not off the board completely. Aerial shooting seems to be though. The plan calls for a review in 3 years when it is likely that shooting will be more broadly introduced. Ground shooting by pros on BHP will quickly account for most of the population. Horses trapped where transport is difficult will be shot in the yard. Those who prove to be shy of the traps will be shot also. The stats from the bleeding hearts suggests few horses are in fact re-homed after trapping. They mostly take the young. Trapping is expensive, slow and labour intensive. It is also very stressful. Many horses are literally dragged onto the trucks with winches. Those who favour keeping the horses in the bush do not speak for all horse owners. I own four and they are behind fences where they belong. Shooting is the quickest, kindest, cheapest and less stressful method of dealing with these feral animals. We need to stop calling them Brumbies as they are not. I am aware some mares have been seeded onto the BHP and one had a cow bell. Some people also have a financial motive for keeping horses in the bush as they catch the older ones for the rodeo circuit or the foals to sell them for around $1000 once broken.
    The arguments for keeping the horses seems largely based on a poem and a very bad movie but in fact this poem highlights the problems pioneer settlers had with feral horses stealing mares and causing damage. The early settlers would shoot them and books I have talk about how inferior they are. Sometimes they would not even waste a bullet and run them through a narrow race where a bloke would slit their throat or bellies.
    NSW needs to grow a pair and get moving on their cull along KNP. Victoria needs to stop bending a knee to bleeding hearts who care nothing for the environment.
     
  25. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 28, 2000
    Messages:
    14,505
    Likes Received:
    13,217
    Have you filled in the survey with the information above?? You’re not telling me anything new but I think your views would be valued in the survey.
     
    The Plowking likes this.
  26. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Amen to that.
     
    Edgecrusher likes this.
  27. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    Deer are one step away from being declared a pest and it is only the lobby groups such as SSAA and ADA who are stopping it because they believe it will then put an end to their sport, particularly in Vic where they can hunt in some declared areas of the NP. The have been considered a pest on farmland in Vic and can now be shot at night by the land owner or a person authorised by them. The ADA say that 100000 deer where shot last year by recreational hunters in Vic which proves they are doing a good job for free. This number grows with every press release and is based on a phone survey of no more than 200 people, then some fancy math is applied to get a fanciful number. Most venison is only good for dogs or sausages. Young animals are great and that is what we prefer to take for meat but a mature doe which is not too old is OK. Hunters who want meat for the table generally leave the older Hinds which are the animals responsible for increasing the population. The ADA talk about sustainable hunting but presently I cannot see any shortage. The increase in population has only served to bring out the lazy hunters who like to drive up and down the road for an easy catch.
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Definition of brumby - (in Australia) a wild or unbroken horse.
    Oxford Dictionaries
     
    POW_hungry likes this.
  29. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    I did the survey plus a written submission as soon as it came out. The survey has some glitches in it at first which would not accept input for some questions and I got onto the people straight away to fix it. I would also encourage people to do a written submission in addition to the survey. You have to register for the Engage Vic website but you then can get info sent to you about things you are concerned about. It was the PV ranger in charge of the program on BHP who happened to tell me and it was just chance we met up in Mt. Beauty the day the draft was released.
     
    jonathanc, Chaeron and POW_hungry like this.
  30. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    The term Brumby evokes some stupid emotional concept in many and the dictionary simply reflects a commonly used term.
    Feral - '(especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.'
    Would a 'brumby' once caught and domesticated then no longer be a 'brumby'? It would no longer be feral.
     
    Jacko4650 and Chaeron like this.
  31. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    9,489
    Rec hunting and feral control are two different things. We should have pros in helicopters, more humane and more efficient than uncoordinated ad hoc hunting. I'm not saying rec hunters can't be part of the control picture, but to rely on them will only result in more feral animals).
     
    skifree, Chaeron and Majikthise like this.
  32. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    Agreed. But these lobby groups will have you believe they are the answer.
     
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    PV have limited resources and rec shooters are part of the program just like there's many other volunteer hours that go into maintaining parks.
    I see deer more widely spread than brumbies and in harder to access areas. Authorised rec shooting looks to me to be something of a trial at this stage. That said, you see brumbies in other places in the high country, not just in NPs, and you see the other ferals too. Don't forget wild dogs and there's been shooting and trapping of those since the 70s or before in another program that seems to me to be under-resourced.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  34. crackson

    crackson A Local
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,694
    Likes Received:
    3,787
    Brumbies are cool.
     
    telecrag likes this.
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,316
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    You see some groups up there in spring and they don't look too hot. It's not a good environment for them.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  36. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,127
    Likes Received:
    2,510
    Wish I had a pony to ride around on....man could Team Bears accelerate :emoji_racehorse:their work program with faster accessibility.....and pack horses fir carrying all and sundry....:emoji_racehorse:
     
  37. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Messages:
    27,453
    Likes Received:
    7,698
     
    Chaeron and Ubiquitous Steve like this.
  38. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    15,761
    Likes Received:
    7,791
    Break some in. Tonnes to go around.
     
    Untele-whippet and Chaeron like this.
  39. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    13,258
    Likes Received:
    17,766
    And horse pie for vittels.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  40. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Ski Pass - Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Horse Kebab, Venison Kebab non Veg. diet people have many options if these feral pests are shot and taken to stock an Afghan kebab shop.
     
  41. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    842
    Trapping of horses on BHP has started with a contractor setting up yards in the Nelse area on Thursday.
     
  42. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    15,761
    Likes Received:
    7,791
     
  43. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    15,761
    Likes Received:
    7,791
    They're beautiful animals.
    But no place for them.
     
    currawong and prcoy like this.
  44. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    23,128
    Likes Received:
    15,892
    Can they use em to make skin glue?
     
  45. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    16,270
    Likes Received:
    9,489
  46. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Ski Pass - Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    3,024
    Deer and horses make good kebab , or so I hear. I prefer Daal and rice.
     
  47. Lady Penelope

    Lady Penelope One of some lot ...
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    3,591
    You philistines! I love the brumbies (probably the only one on this thread, harking back to my “silver brumby” days (Elyne Mitchell).
     
    Snowy Joey, zac150 and crackson like this.
  48. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    22,841
    Likes Received:
    15,296
    Have you spent much time where the brumbies drink?
     
  49. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    23,128
    Likes Received:
    15,892
    Put em in your backyard
     
    Untele-whippet and Seth like this.
  50. Lady Penelope

    Lady Penelope One of some lot ...
    Ski Pass - Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,718
    Likes Received:
    3,591
    It’s pretty roomy; they might fit!