1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Question Wild horse removal Bogong High Plains

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Chaeron, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,935
    Likes Received:
    12,579
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    It is legal for anyone to butcher and consume an animal on the property it was killed on without any sort of permit or licensing. Once the carcass or butchered posts of the animal leave the property all sorts of rules and licensing are ment to be followed.
     
  2. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    Makes a lot of sense. With Australia's critical biosecurity standards, Dad is getting too old to handle stock and wanted to sell his 4 cattle. With paddock to plate tracking nowadays he is battling thru mind blowing red tape! Perhaps he would be better off getting in the local butcher???? Not sure if same rules would apply to feral animals; one would hope not?
     
  3. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Melbourne
    On a bit of errant Googling, it looks like the Vic govt changed the rules last year to allow wild deer to be harvested for commercial purposes - but the number of people who meet the criteria for this seems quite slim:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-22/victoria-wild-deer-can-now-be-harvested-for-eating/10405162

    As far as I am aware, the existing regs for recreational hunters remain - animals you shoot can only be processed for "personal consumption only". Whether that means that consumption is restricted to only the person who took the animal, or their immediate family, or..... well, it's not perfectly clear, however the relevant fact sheet include the snippet that you cannot give away meat from a kill if you are a recreational hunter. http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/__data/as...me-Meat-Processing-Fact-Sheet-19-Oct-2018.pdf
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  4. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    We take care of our own venison on the property and it is not too difficult. The back of a ute works well as a butcher's table to dress it down but we do hang them in the shed to skin and set overnight. We also buy the cheap paint drop sheets from Bunnings and spread that over the back of the ute to put the clean meat on. It could be done in the field also. Depending on the shot you usually get all four legs, which are not difficult to cut off and then you take the backstraps. No gutting required but the legs still have the skin on. That is taken off back at camp. If you gut the animal then you can get to the tender loins, which are the best bit. A mobile butcher in East Gippsland runs courses on how to process deer. He is very good. Because it is a game meat then you can (as long as you are game licenced) move meat from where you shoot it to your home without problems. Butchering on your own property can be restricted by some councils but that is usually only in more built up areas.
     
  5. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    37,551
    Likes Received:
    23,453
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Nice summary, thanks :)
     
  6. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Melbourne
    This is why I am thinking of a shared ownership "hunting lodge" with what is essentially a processing shed and a hunting vehicle. I have no need to a ute or similar vehicle in day-to-day, as I generally cycle the 20kms from home to work and back - at present my wife and I share her Hyundai Getz! LOL

    My "vision" is something along the lines of bringing an esky or two to the "lodge", grab the hunting vehicle and go out, return with field dressed carcass, butcher into basic cuts (shanks, ribs, shoulder, hind, backstrap, tenderloin), vacseal, label, chill in chest freezer, take home in esky with ice.

    Possible additional stuff would be mincing of meat, processing of sausages etc and curing of jerky.

    For something like that, the property would need to be within a 4 hour drive of Melb CBD for food safety, or I would need to replace the esky with a portable fridge.

    Even better would be if the building was secure enough to be able to have gun safes on site - avoid transportation of rifles from home, and storage at home.
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  7. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    You may need a bigger car. Can you fit 2 eskies into a Getz? A 50 litre car fridge will take a small deer cut up but only just. If you want ribs then you have to gut and don't bother taking ribs from anything that has dark meat. The young ribs are better than pork. We find garden loppers good for cutting bone like ribs. A bucket of water with disinfectant is handy as well. Knives go in that when not in use. Another bucket for hand washing. Young Sambar meat is like veal in colour and just as tender. Older meat is dark and more suitable for small goods although the backstraps and tenderloins can be good. Young meat does not need hanging and can be frozen straight away but older meat may need to be kept between zero and 4 degrees for a week or so. This allows the enzymes to break down the meat a bit. After 10 days this action is pretty much over. Do no chill meat to below freezing if you intend to let the enzymes do their job.

    Although we try to take younger deer, sometimes it happens we get something older but that is not bad either as then we get lots of mince which is great for spag bol or lasagne. Last winter we made a cold cured salami which was great and we always make sausages or cabana. Had some young venison rump last night which was cut thin and pounded out. Grated goat cheese, sage leaf and asparagus wrapped up then wrapped again with a parma ham. In the oven for 20mins and a garlic cream sauce. Can do a similar thing with a Marsala sauce.

    Processing your own meat is good fun. We still need to buy a slicer for small goods and have smoked many cuts. Hygiene is very important as is a couple of good knives. There is some considerable investment in the whole thing, even if you share the costs with others. It is not a cost effective operation unless you do it like we can.
     
  8. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Location:
    vic
    What about a naming convention for said venison produce?
    ...East Gippsland jerky has a ring to it?

    ...perhaps Jindy Jerky /Jindivik Jerky rolls off the tongue better?

    ...Jugangal Jerky - has substance and style!!
     
  9. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Location:
    vic
    ...or ?

    How about Benambra Brumby Burgers?? ( ;-/)

    Sub for Bombala if north o' wall??
     
    Charlie and Chaeron like this.
  10. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Melbourne
    We already need a bigger car, but have been putting off the purchase as it hasn't been essential. With Young Mr now just over 3, and a second one planned, I am contemplating a 2020 Outback as a family/adventure/snow/travel vehicle, and upsizing the Getz to a Skoda Scala or something for a manageable daily driver for my wife.

    On the self-sufficiency front, without "selling" meat, I have a number of friends who would be eager to come with me for a weekend, take home a side of venison that they assisted in taking down, and pitch in to cover expenses - especially a few in the medieval re-creation society side of things. (More than a few of them would probably fancy the skins as well)
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  11. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,413
    Likes Received:
    3,271
    Hey!
    Xplora Burgers from Mt Wills and Shannonvale Precinct!
     
    nezumi and snowgum like this.
  12. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    I can confirm BHP part of the Alpine Nat Park will be closed from Monday to Friday next week (6-10 May) for aerial shooting operations. It may be extended to include Monday 13th if weather turns bad.This also includes Mt. Bogong and Mt Feathertop and all approaches.
     
  13. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    2,780
    GS and Chaeron like this.
  14. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,730
    Likes Received:
    755
    Why aren't they "Horseburgers" ??
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  15. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Well, it turns out that what I was thinking of does exist, to a certain extent - I just had to do a little digging.

    The SSAA has a sub-club called the Deerstalkers. Apparently they don't allow hunting with dogs, and have a property out at Woods Point, so a good start. I'll have to see how they are in person, but there is potential there.
    http://www.deerstalkers.com.au/
     
  16. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,664
    Likes Received:
    10,247
    Location:
    Bonbeach, Vic
    Yum.
    Don't be surprised to get a knock on your door next Flyfishing trip!!
    I'll follow my nose....
     
  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Searching for info regarding the Supreme Court injunction and I came across this. https://chuffed.org/project/fightin...NPmUpxgCYm3gjGKihiY0y-YR5Vea9ZfPSMTWlTZKN_OwE

    As of this post they have only raised $879 of a proposed $100K with 37 days to go. The Australian Brumby Alliance, which puts together all those little interest groups, has just over 200 followers. I think this shows the depth of their argument and commitment. The little stallion in the banner photo looks like the fellow hanging around Nelse with the mares which look more like big stock horses and not BHP ferals. When you are out and about this winter on BHP, please remember to take photos and note locations of mobs. Most will drop down lower when the snow hits so you may see them on your approach. If you post it here I can make sure those in charge of the program get the information or I can provide the details for you to send it direct (PM me that).

    And while you are at it, check out this awesome photo https://www.austdeer.com.au/@news/2019/04/12/1374438/aerial-culling-raises-questions
    The ADA will do all they can to prevent any effective method of culling deer. All they want is to put recreational hunters into National Parks. Something I learnt recently is that the scent of a dog will stop small marsuipals from crossing that path. That could mean no water or no mating. I agree that hound hunting is more effective than normal stalking but lets see how this trial goes before we bag it.
     
  18. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    26,222
    Likes Received:
    30,260
    We need some military grade VapoDrones. Of course they work better if the Deer have a mobile phone.
     
    Telemark Phat and Undies like this.
  19. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Weather stop on the shoot. Recommencing Wed 15th to Friday 17th inclusive. Park is open until then.
     
    skifree and Ubiquitous Steve like this.
  20. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Actually heard the helicopter yesterday over the ridge to our north and then the sound of a semi auto pumping away.
     
    Gimp, Chaeron and Pelm1 like this.
  21. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Just received information regarding the aerial deer shoot. Here are the guts of it from the email.

    Hi,

    Parks Victoria completed the second stage of the deer aerial shooting trial in the Alpine National Park on Thursday 16th May.

    One hundred and thirty five deer were shot by professional aerial marksman in just over 18 hours of aerial shooting time. This adds to the 119 deer that were shot in the first stage of the trial in October, equating to a deer approximately every 8 minutes over the course of the trial.

    The recent operation focused on the isolated, high elevation parts of the park around Mt Bogong and the Bogong High Plains. These areas contain sensitive alpine communities with high conservation value that are very difficult to access on foot.

    During both operations the air crew noticed significant track networks and large wallows that had been formed by deer.

    The aerial trial forms part of the broader deer control trial that Parks Victoria commenced in 2015, which has also involved ground shooting operations utilising the expertise of contractors and volunteer shooters from the Australian Deer Association and the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia. The aim of the trial is to determine the most efficient, cost effective and humane methods of managing deer in order to protect sensitive alpine habitats, and the unique wildlife and plants that occur in them. Parks Victoria will use the results of the trial to determine the optimal combination of deer control approaches that can be applied in future management programs.

    Parks Victoria would like to thank visitors and local communities for their understanding regarding the park closures that were put in place during this important park management operation.
     
  22. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,307
    Likes Received:
    14,736
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    I like their approach of looking for the right mix of control methods rather than choosing a one size fits all answer.
     
    Chaeron and skifree like this.
  23. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,935
    Likes Received:
    12,579
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    We already know that helicopter control is the most cost effective and humane control method.
     
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    It is effective for deer in the open areas and suspect the same for horses but it is not cheap. The advantage is a large number culled in a short time. This has a greater affect on population control than picking up a couple every other month. It also has the advantage of covering a larger footprint. Horses and deer both inhabit heavily timbered areas in large numbers so other methods will have be used. Ground shooting has also proved to be ineffective for deer in these areas so what is the next step?
     
    dawooduck and skifree like this.
  25. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,558
    Likes Received:
    8,349
    Location:
    Gippsland
    Great, now to extend it to the feral horses
     
    dawooduck and skifree like this.
  26. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    22,592
    Likes Received:
    13,875
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Do more of it across a larger area.

    The aerial culling / extermination attempt for water buffalo in the NT was originally planned as a 10 year program.
     
    dawooduck and currawong like this.
  27. Stephen Allen

    Stephen Allen Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    108
    Barilaro announces Kosciuszko feral horses committee...
     
  28. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    59,475
    Likes Received:
    29,071
    Location:
    East Coast
    Stacked with a good dash of wheel reinvention. The silly buggers are still talking about "rehoming".
     
    The Plowking likes this.
  29. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    4,477
    Sadly I don't even need to know the names to know it's stacked. Your Deputy Premier is a rollled gold troglodyte. Sadly.
     
    PMG, Chaeron, zapruda and 4 others like this.
  30. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    15,361
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Location:
    queensland
    maybe release some wolves to eat the deer.

    it worked with the cane beetle..........
     
    Zeroz and Chaeron like this.
  31. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    59,475
    Likes Received:
    29,071
    Location:
    East Coast
    Reads like Man from Snowy River convention
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  32. Stephen Allen

    Stephen Allen Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    108
    Well, can we compile details on who each of the members are, then declare procedural inequity if indeed it is 'stacked'. Procedural equity is a principle of common law.
     
    Chaeron and The Plowking like this.
  33. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,664
    Likes Received:
    10,247
    Location:
    Bonbeach, Vic
    "I know this Panel will reflect the views of our community and balance our views with the ecological importance of Kosciuszko National Park."

    Yeah, naah.
     
    Chaeron and dawooduck like this.
  34. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    15,361
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Location:
    queensland
  35. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    15,361
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Location:
    queensland
    What a joke.


    Chair
    "Mr Johnson is the man for the job - a nominated representative of the Snowy Horse Riders Association and he was integral in forming the National Heritage Listing over the Australian Alps.

    Jindabyne beef producer Ted Rowley

    Snowy Mountains horse riders association's spokeswoman Leisa Caldwell

    Rhonda Casey - Director of TKNIC (Toomaroombah Kunama Namadgi Indigenous Corp)

    Colleen O'Brien from the Victorian Brumby Association

    Leon Meyer ex-Australian Professional Rodeo Association’s Board
     
    skifree likes this.
  36. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    15,361
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Location:
    queensland
    fixt, noting the actual events attributed to TMFSR happened a long way from the Snowy Mountains
     
    skifree likes this.
  37. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    4,477
    Wowee, massive eye roll. How can it be taken seriously?
     
    skifree and The Plowking like this.
  38. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    15,361
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Location:
    queensland
    Chief Science dude - therefore credible.
     
  39. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,013
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    How the F does someone from the Victorian Brumby Association get on it? Aren't they the same org taking the Vic govt to court to stop feral horse control in Barmah?

    And two from Snowy horse riders...
     
  40. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    59,475
    Likes Received:
    29,071
    Location:
    East Coast
    Tim Johnson (Chair) - Snowy riders
    Professor Hugh Durrant-Whyte (Deputy Chair) - chief scientist
    Edward Rowley - Jindabyne farmer
    Leisa Caldwell - Brumby and High Country Cattlemen activist
    Rhonda Casey - Indigenous Rep
    Cameron Ellison - Horse guy Tumut
    Colleen O'Brien - Brumby Activist
    Leon Meyer - Horse guy
     
  41. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,013
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    So if anything it will be we need to help the ferals breed more....
     
    skifree likes this.
  42. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    19,729
    Likes Received:
    11,646
    Location:
    Top drawer
    We should be clearing snow gums to allow more grass for the horsies.
     
    Telemark Phat and skifree like this.
  43. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Chief scientist - He is a robotics engineer. Or is that some other prof by the same name. What a joke. So much for the new environment minister doings something worthwhile.
     
  44. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    30,219
    Likes Received:
    24,674
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    The Jindy farmer will be useful. They can use his property as a staging point while they re-locate the brumbies.

    What's that you say - brumbies on his property are a pest? How can that be?
     
    skifree, neilmny, PMG and 3 others like this.
  45. Gimp

    Gimp One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,862
    Likes Received:
    3,514
    Location:
    Jindi
    Let's just remind ourselves of this dicks pre election promise
     
    skifree and POW_hungry like this.
  46. Gimp

    Gimp One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,862
    Likes Received:
    3,514
    Location:
    Jindi
    Just back from the middle of WA where feral camels (similar 'heritage' to feral horses) and horses are whacked by the thousands, i.e. Land management to control degradating feral species, bravo to the pastoralists of WA
     
    currawong, skifree, Chaeron and 4 others like this.
  47. neilmny

    neilmny Addicted

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    246
    What a joke, is that supposed to be Barilaro standing looking at some meek and mild wild brumbies that are calmly feeding while he does? If it is and that's the way it looks to me, there's turd bucket of bias to Brumby spin right there.
     
    #697 neilmny, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    skifree, Chaeron, Fozzie Bear and 2 others like this.
  48. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,296
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Most likely he was on Cochrane's place. None of the horses in the photo were KNP ferals. I can get that close to some BHP ferals but have never been able to do that at KNP. They are too fat also.
     
    Chaeron, Telemark Phat and zapruda like this.
  49. Gimp

    Gimp One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,862
    Likes Received:
    3,514
    Location:
    Jindi
    You can hand feed Selwyn ferals
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  50. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    19,729
    Likes Received:
    11,646
    Location:
    Top drawer
    Are we still talking about horses?
     
    Chaeron, neilmny, POW_hungry and 2 others like this.