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Winter driving, tyres & snow chain thread for 2020

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by snow drive solutions, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. snow drive solutions

    snow drive solutions Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    MORE AIR IN YOUR WINTER TYRES
    Temperature has a significant impact on tire pressurization. For summer tires, we (Nokian) recommend using the vehicle manufacturer’s suggested tire pressure. For winter tires, you should inflate the tires to 3 PSI above the summer tire recommendation, since tire pressure decreases as much as 1 PSI with each 10-degree drop in temperature. The temperature in a warm garage can be up to 60˚F higher than outside. If the tire pressure is measured inside, it will be too low for outside temperatures.
     
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  2. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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  3. snow drive solutions

    snow drive solutions Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    WINTER / SNOW TIRE TECH: WHAT IS THE THREE-PEAK MOUNTAIN SNOWFLAKE SYMBOL?
    (Lea en español)
    [​IMG]

    A three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol branded on a tire's sidewall indicates the tire meets required performance criteria in snow testing to be considered severe snow service-rated. Originally used as a designation for winter tires, the 3PMSF symbol is now featured on some all-season and all-terrain tires with snow performance that meets the testing criteria.

    https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=125

    • Testing measures a tire's acceleration traction on medium-packed snow only. Braking and turning on snow, along with ice traction are not components of the test.
    • Tires branded with the 3PMSF symbol are expected to provide improved snow traction beyond a standard M+S branded all-season tire.
    Note: 3PMSF-branded all-season and all-terrain tires cannot match the traction of dedicated winter / snow tires in all winter weather conditions and should not be considered a replacement for where and when a dedicated winter tire is needed.
     
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  4. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Guys please put to bed the notion that you reduce tyre pressure to drive up the hill for a ski. I don't know where this notion came from but it is not correct.

    This morning .... mmm which one to take, the istar or the Wildpeak shod, I ain't letting no air out.

    Show time :thumbs::cheers:
     
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  5. Myazma

    Myazma One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Dusting of snow with rain last night around Jindi = WARNING be careful driving this morning, icy slippery conditions out there
     
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  6. Snowy Joe

    Snowy Joe First Runs

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    If you're not a 100+ time on snow driver then slow down to about 10kph on slopes (ie: Rennix if you know it). Only drive at 40kph on flat straight sections. If you have a fair bit of on-snow driving experience you can go a tad faster on straight flat roads.
     
  7. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    You forgot to mention bonus points for how many cars you can back up behind you.
     
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  8. Newsteve

    Newsteve Hard Yards

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    Just a thought.. some people like to put in extra pressure for the high speed run down to the snow. (saves fuel). If that happens, then maybe it is a good idea to drop them back to normal and get a little extra footprint and a gentler steering if you are likely to encounter snow.
    Also could be a good idea to adjust tyre pressures when they are at outside temps.. we don't all have garages to keep the tyres nice and warm :)
     
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  9. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us

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    My top tip, don’t rely on textile traction aids or fabric alternative snow chains whilst they are fantastic on the fresh snow and got me out of trouble a couple of times when things get slushy it does not provide you with any grip and they just slide off. Managed to get me to the Skitube but not back to the accommodation at night during a major snow storm last year.

    Luckily this year sold that car and bought an awd that car that can fit snow chains.
     
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  10. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    If in doubt accelerate what could possibly go wrong?
     
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  11. snow drive solutions

    snow drive solutions Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    WHAT IS THE CORRECT TYRE PRESSURE FOR A WINTER TYRE?
    From Nokian - The inventor of the winter tyre.
    https://www.nokiantyres.com/custome...-the-correct-tyre-pressure-for-a-winter-tyre/
    Nokian Tyres has tested the winter tyre pressures for most of the car models. The indication has been that the number should be 0,2 bar (20kpa) higher than the recommended summer tyre pressure. This is due to to different construction in a winter tyre and the effect of cold to the pressure. You can check your vehicle’s manual for the recommended tyre pressure. Note: Always measure pressure when the tyres are cold.
     
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  12. Newsteve

    Newsteve Hard Yards

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    Is that pressure in summer tyres v pressures in winter tyres? ie two different tyres?
    I run totally different pressures in my Pirelli SCORPION™ ATR (road tyres) than I do in my Cooper Discoverer ST Maxx.
    The coopers are a taller tyre with a corresponding bigger rolling diam. and as such need more pressure.
     
  13. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    As a result of Skitube restrictions this season (ie no season add on, yet !), I'll probably just buy park pass and drive in this year.
    My 2wd wagon is up for new tyres and Im looking at Cooper CS5 Touring. They were on my consideration list anyway but then I noticed they have the M+S symbol on them.
    I'd love to hear from anyone that is running these on your own vehicle.
    I'm doing 40K km pa with 95% of the time on NSW regional highways.

    Do you notice any difference in the snow/ice compared to non M+S tyres?

    General wear and handling ?

    Before anyone rips into me, yes I have chains and I understand the difference between M+S and the 3 peaks symbol and I know they are not a Winter tyre. I'm curious to see if the M+S on these tyres is just marketing or if there is a noticeable difference.
     
  14. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I haven't run those particular tyres. Generally M+S tyres get different tread patterns, more siping. Helps water dispersion and more flexible blocks. As a result, generally they should be a little better in fresh snow and deep wet slush than "normal" tyres.

    However, snow tyres also have different rubber compounds, which are softer, and stay more grippy and flexible at lower temperatures. Grip on slick icy surfaces and compacted slush is more dependant on rubber compound than tread pattern. M+S tyres do not get this. So don't expect M+S to be any better on ice than "normal" tyres. If you want that you really need dedicated snow tyres.

    One other thing, Cooper tyres partly promote themselves on longevity. That likely means they have a very hard rubber compound. If that is the case, it is not ideal for snow / ice. That is just speculation on my behalf, no evidence to back it up.
     
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  15. Ret-ro

    Ret-ro One of Us

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    Question? Why can't they treat these roads with beet juice as they do in British Columbia. No environmental issues over there. It lasts about 6-10 days.

    The snow when it is dry does stick to proper Snow tyres . It is correct D&S just doesn't do it as safely as snow winter tyres. -10 here at Sun Peaks
     

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  16. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I want whatever tyres this bloke has....

    wait for the end
     
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  17. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    My crazy Swiss mate did something like that on the way back from the bar one night. Straight up the piste from Salastrains into a big reverse drift turn and back down. VW Jetta
     
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  18. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know a bloke who drove his 70s Holden from the sundeck to the man in a straight line.
     
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  19. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Then again, I’ve seen plenty of people bogged up to the axles on the bit of snow between the creek at perisher and the car park / skitube building. They have to get pulled out by Hans oversnow, which is not cheap, as well as putting up with all the smart comments from thousands of skiIers walking back to their cars:D
     
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  20. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cold hard packed early morning snow, you can hear it crunching under foot as the camera person walks around. Best traction conditions, any decent AWD and rubber combo would work.
     
  21. Aractus

    Aractus One of Us

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    My comment was more to do with general highway driving. A little under-inflated is not dangerous (*I'm NOT talking about low profile tyres) but loses fuel efficiency because of greater friction on the road. If you want to under-inflate by 2-4 PSI you should be perfectly safe, and if you aren't then there's something seriously wrong with your tyre. What is dangerous is over-inflating your tyres, and I had that happen to me once. I bought two brand new tyres from a well-known tyre shop in Fyshwick, two days later I drove up to Perisher. Well in the area of the Monaro Hwy that they've changed to 80kmph now (but then it was 100) I slid out despite the road being bone dry. When I got back to Canberra I checked the tyre pressure the next day - they were 40 PSI (and meant to be 32!) Needless to say I'll never make that mistake again. Note that the establishment is also a mechanic, so I obviously expected they knew how to correctly inflate tyres.

    Anyway I don't under-inflate my tyres, I was just saying it's not an "outlandish idea".

    As for chains I'll say what I said last season which is that I always carry two pairs (currently three pairs this season), and it's well worth chaining all 4 tyres if going back down from Perisher in blizzard conditions in my opinion. It's about 14km from the Perisher car park to Wilson's valley, almost all of it downhill and quite steep, so if there's serious snow on the road then that means I put chains on all my tyres, and anyone else skiing in those conditions with a 2WD, or a small AWD, should also have a second set of chains on hand IMHO. Though given the way some people drive, including a guest pulled over by the cops and getting fined while I was driving out after skiing on Sunday, I'm sceptical as to whether drivers care what I've to say, or anyone else.

    That may have been the same day I chained up all 4 tyres last year for the trip back down (drove up on two chains, and fitted the second pair right after I parked). I can say I had no trouble driving down and kept to 40kmph.
     
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  22. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    What vehicle and tyres are you driving ?
     
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  23. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Four chains on a 4wd is NZ level access roads.
     
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  24. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    IMHO chains on four wheels in Australia is not required. The only time you should need 4 chains is serious off road snow/mud conditions.

    I've driven in worse conditions than what looks like in your photo with no chains but those were the wild west days when you could get away with not fitting chains......
     
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  25. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    For an aussie driver, Mt O might warrant four chains after a decent dump and bull dozer cleared access track. .
     
  26. Aractus

    Aractus One of Us

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    Well I'm happy to tell you the tyres, 185/65R14. Like I said I did not expect to get two new drive-wheel tyres fitted and inflated to a dangerous pressure - luckily when I slid out the road was like I said bone dry so all I had to do was not touch the steering wheel to regain traction. In hindsight though I should have checked pressure in Jindy. However keep in mind at that point I didn't know why I slid out, I wasn't speeding and I only suspected the tyres were over-inflated but dismissed that idea because I didn't think the establishment could possibly be that negligent, when I checked pressure I honestly expected them to be correct and that I must have hit oil on the road that I didn't see.

    I respectfully disagree. Driving 14km, mostly downhill and steep, what's an extra 2-5 minutes of your time in the morning worth?!
     
  27. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This was a good day for chains.
    Midway between smiggs and perisher.
     
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  28. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    2005 would be the last time the amount of snow on the road got serious. 25cm in Jindabyne and a 5hr drive down from Perisher. My ride was an RX Subaru Wagon with Bridgestone Potenza tyres :eek:
     
  29. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's a tyre size not a tyre or vehicle type.

    Sorry old chum but whilst it's nice to be overly cautious at times, chains on four wheels on the PB road is in my experience a tad overkill.

    To each their own I guess.
     
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  30. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nice overhead wiring .....
     
  31. Cam Slee

    Cam Slee One of Us

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    You blokes are losing the plot. I've driven for donkeys to Falls Creek and Mt Hotham.
    In 2WD if there's snow on the road put the chains on.
    In 4WD if there's snow on the road, select it or lock the hubs for 4WD.
    Fit chains to 4WD if directed at Mt Hotham, happens regularly these days.
    I've done snow clearing at Falls Creek and Mt Hotham.
    Keep your speed down if there's snow, ice on the road.
    Don't worry about tyre pressures.
    Simple.
    Just relax and enjoy the drive.
     
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  32. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Brumby fence...
     
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  33. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The ones that didn't win the war :D
     
  34. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yup that was interesting.
    Foot of snow on the road by the Mt Gladstone turnoff.
    We left Wollongong at 5am.
    Pity the snow up the hill was crap
     
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  35. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Committed Hara-kiri
     
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  36. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was much more fun driving around the district the next day including towing the boys on skis down the hatchery road. Also trying to ski the drop off to the bowlo.

    Fun drive down from PB included a stop at Smiggs pub for a few games of pool and a little drifting around the Big roundabout as we finally made it to Jindy around 10pm.

    Probably should have put chains on but .... AWD with slicks.

    We went off a little at the ranger station flat overtaking a mad scattering of stranded but .... powered back on to the tarmac with hi anxiety at 40km/h.

    The road was only cleared from PB to the Ranger station so suddenly it got...
    deep.

    Stay safe people, a LOT more cars on the road these days.
     
  37. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Number of Cars are the problem.
    I can confidently drive at 60 clicks on the guthega road in normal snow.
    Kosi road. I'm scared of urban assault vehicles behind and in front of me.
     
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  38. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Most definitely. It's become more difficult to drive your own drive these days with the lack of flow in the traffic. So much braking going on and in all the wrong places.
     
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  39. Aractus

    Aractus One of Us

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    Going uphill I agree, but going downhill it's well worth 2 minutes of my time to fit rear chains if I think the conditions require it.
     
  40. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Fair enough. I once had an interesting experience on the Hotham road driving a family down in an X5 with chains where the car behind kept locking up the unchained front wheels and catching up to us. I had to keep one eye on them whilst trying to keep us slow n safe.

    Lots of snow driving stories but so far all just in the "interesting drive" category.
     
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  41. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    You just need to learn to travel to the condition and be smooth on the brake application you don't need four chains on.
     
  42. N0frilz

    N0frilz Addicted

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    And chains on the rear would have kept them straight.... Would have been hard on the brakes and off them and on the gas I bet.
     
  43. Aractus

    Aractus One of Us

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    So what if wildlife appears, you have to brake and the rear reels facing downhill have no traction? Sorry I don't agree with that logic. And all the cars in the ditch I saw last year tells me they did something catastrophically wrong.
     
  44. snow drive solutions

    snow drive solutions Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    Snow chains are designed to allow a vehicle to climb a gradient that’s beyond the grip level of the tyres. State regulations require all vehicles in Victoria, and 2WDs in NSW, to carry wheel chains that can be correctly fitted to your tyres when required. The ‘Owners manual’ of your vehicle will detail what wheel and tyre combinations are approved for the fitting of wheel chains. Snow chain manufacturers warranty does not cover any snow chain that are used on a vehicle that is fitted with wheels, tyres or a wheel/tyre combination, that are not approved to be fitted snow chains by the vehicle manufacturer. In order for wheel chains to work effectively they must penetrate into the compacted snow surface to penetrate to provide the maximum amount of traction.
     
  45. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Rear wheel drive falcon wagon with chains on the back, front wheels lock, rear wheels torque skid even with chains. It was a hell storm on that wonderfully wind polished Hotham road.
     
  46. nfip

    nfip Cold n' Rusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    snowchains
     
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  47. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Chains will lock and slide under incorrect braking or vehicle weight overcoming traction.

    Cars in ditch usually under braking trying not to run into the car in front due to travelling too close, not reading the road, lack of experience etc.
     
  48. nfip

    nfip Cold n' Rusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    un snowchains
     
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  49. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oddly.
    In the same spot.
    Every year
     
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  50. snow drive solutions

    snow drive solutions Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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