Winter driving, tyres & snow chain thread for 2020

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
73,443
67,135
1,525
Mountains
20200713_144340.jpg
Road carnage, what road carnage :thumbs:

20200713_144748.jpg
20200713_143903.jpg
20200713_131952.jpg
20200713_124914.jpg
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
73,443
67,135
1,525
Mountains
The top of Nuggets Hill at 7:10 am Monday with two AWD/4WD battling to gain traction to get past another that had failed to gain traction and stuck itself in the snow bank.

Small AWD tried to get past the stuck one, it's electronic AWD system failing to obtain traction so the big white 4WD tried to get past and suffered the same stuttering fate of electronics largely overwhelmed by the situation.

The cars shown are all stopped.

Jumped out, as well as the work mate in the orange Subi XV to help push but the big 4WD crab walked itself forward and out of the way so we both jumped back in and without a hint of wheel spin drove past the unfolding mess and were on our way.

This little bit of mayhem ended up closing the road not long afterwards.

The winning factor being snow or snow oriented tyres that allowed grip from a stop on a steep incline.

Snow Tyres and decent AWD/4WD rock.
20200715_193410.jpg


The road in after that was even more snowy but with some smooth overtaking a relatively easy and smooth drive. Twelve cars off the road beyond the half dozen at the top of the hill and as always a bongo van stuck sideways on van life corner but he had done very well to get that far without chains.

Almost all offs where AWD/4WD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sly_karma

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
73,443
67,135
1,525
Mountains
But their tyres

It can be done quite easily with AWD and road tyres as long as there are no interruptions to the forward motion and the driver knows how to use all tactile faculties available to him/her.

Hill starts are tricky .....

LOL ... I have never parked and hopped out for a tourist pic before but couldn't resist top of Nuggets on the way home. Road was closed to uphill traffic and the only downhill was me and another bloke who knew what's what. We stopped twice to remove trees off the road.

A very pleasant drive home about 1:30pm with a detour up Cranky Flat road to pick up a parcel, through Jindy, the tourist play zone zoo north of the dam wall, the mess up the hill and out to my place.

It was surreal. TBC luxury truck was awesome.

Round the outside .....
 

Donza

Dogs body...
Platinum
Apr 21, 2004
130,262
89,295
3,563
woonona
It can be done quite easily with AWD and road tyres as long as there are no interruptions to the forward motion and the driver knows how to use all tactile faculties available to him/her.

Hill starts are tricky .....
Momentum is key.


Coming down the hill after Rennix yesterday morning ole mate was putting chains on.
Right where everyone usually has a off. Near the guthega turnoff.
Fairly special.
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
73,443
67,135
1,525
Mountains
PB road is much more .... interesting.

Momentum and lots n lots of .... round the outside
 

Nidecker

A Local
Ski Pass
Aug 5, 2009
5,748
11,230
563
Alpine the dark side of snowboarding
A very pleasant drive home about 1:30pm with a detour up Cranky Flat road to pick up a parcel, through Jindy, the tourist play zone zoo north of the dam wall, the mess up the hill and out to my place. .....

Drove back to Syd on Monday night, interesting bit of road after the dam, even more interesting were some of the drivers and their choices.

Must be liberating wandering though life with absolutely no concept of Physics.
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
73,443
67,135
1,525
Mountains
Drove back to Syd on Monday night, interesting bit of road after the dam, even more interesting were some of the drivers and their choices.

Must be liberating wandering though life with absolutely no concept of Physics.

I was kind of disappointed I did not encounter a snow man constructed in the middle of the road, everything else but alas no man of snow
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nidecker

Nidecker

A Local
Ski Pass
Aug 5, 2009
5,748
11,230
563
Alpine the dark side of snowboarding
..................Almost all offs where AWD/4WD.

To be fair, the majority of cars in the mountains are AWD of some sort or another, and on any downhill they are just as useless as a 2WD if driven poorly. So I kinda expect the majority of offs to be that type.

Now those fuckers who can't drive up a hill in snow need their nuts removed with a butter knife, just sayin!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dawooduck
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

robbo mcs

A Local
Ski Pass
Sep 1, 2008
5,149
23,014
563
Kenthurst / Jindabyne
It would help if people put decent tyres on their cars. Not even snow, or M+S tyres. I’d be happy if most people attempting to drive up just had decent quality tyres with tread on them, and haven’t done 80k’s.

To be honest, a lot of the AWD and 4WD that get into trouble it is largely due to the crap cheap and worn tyres they have. Well that and poor skills, lack of common sense, no concentration, over confidence, not looking or thinking ahead .... :rolleyes:.
 

Donza

Dogs body...
Platinum
Apr 21, 2004
130,262
89,295
3,563
woonona
It would help if people put decent tyres on their cars. Not even snow, or M+S tyres. I’d be happy if most people attempting to drive up just had decent quality tyres with tread on them, and haven’t done 80k’s.

To be honest, a lot of the AWD and 4WD that get into trouble it is largely due to the crap cheap and worn tyres they have. Well that and poor skills, lack of common sense, no concentration, over confidence .... :rolleyes:.
It's not just cheap. But most of these cars have highway HP rubber .
I remember walking past a rs version of a euro SUV in the car park.
It was running on virtual slicks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonathan_P

N0frilz

Addicted
Jul 13, 2015
280
158
113
around
Safety first dawooduck I hope you double chained like old mate earlier in the thread......

Robbo MCS I like to buy my tyres a year in advance put them in the attic so they go super hard so I can get 100km+ out of them and get value for money.... who needs grip.
 

southpaw

One of Us
Ski Pass
Mar 28, 2018
1,281
2,834
363
Canberra
This video will help to explain why there are so many issues with AWDs driving in snow and icy conditions as experienced two weekends ago

You wonder why they don’t mandate chains for AWD vehicles in NSW then. Exempting them probably creates a false sense of security in some drivers.
 

p2p

Addicted
Ski Pass
Aug 18, 2000
206
187
113
Newport, Vic
This video will help to explain why there are so many issues with AWDs driving in snow and icy conditions as experienced two weekends ago


While I have absolutely no doubt that winter tyres perform better in snow, I'm just wondering how realistic this comparison is. From a quick google on the summer tyres being used here:

Goodyear's warranty states that "ultra high-performance summer tires are not recommended for winter use, and tread or shoulder cracking on those tires resulting from winter use will not be covered under our warranty," so like all summer tires, the Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 is not intended to be stored, serviced or driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

i.e these would seem like tyres that you would NEVER expect to use on snow.

Surely a more relevant comparison would be an AWD drive fitted with MS tyres or at least tyres that most of us would be more likely to be using. I've been driving AWD in the snow for many years - sometimes with M&S tyres, sometimes just my standard all year tyres - but would never have contemplated doing so on ultra high-performance tyres
 
  • Like
Reactions: Newsteve

DidSurfNowSki

One of them
Ski Pass
Jan 19, 2014
12,729
26,694
813
Canberra, ACT
Just remembered I hadn’t tried out the new chains yet.

So rather than trying to figure out how they fit on the side of the road, I pulled the spare wheel out for a fitting.

6C62B2F3-795F-46B0-BE00-0CCEC8D34763.jpeg


Should be OK :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonathan_P

snow drive solutions

One of Us
Ski Pass
Nov 26, 2019
119
276
163
MELBOURNE
www.snowdrivesolutions.com.au
This "Notice of Preparation of Regulatory Impact Statement Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020" was advertised in The Age (page 33) 27.07.2020
___________________________________________________________________________

Notice of Preparation of Regulatory Impact Statement Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020
https://www.forestsandreserves.vic.gov.au/land-management/alpine-resorts
Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulatory Impact Statement

"Make a submission on the Regulatory Impact Statement for the proposed Alpine Resorts Regulations
The Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020 will replace the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2009, which expires on 3 November 2020.
The objectives of the proposed Regulations are to ensure Alpine Resorts are managed safely and efficiently by—
(a) prohibiting access to areas of alpine resorts or parts of alpine resorts by persons and vehicles
(b) setting aside areas in alpine resorts for public use
(c) regulating the use, driving and parking of vehicles in alpine resorts
(d) prescribing offences
(e) prescribing fees for entry into alpine resorts and access and use of areas set aside for public use and
(f) prescribing other matters to give effect to the Alpine Resorts (Management) Act 1997.

The Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) (DOCX, 3.7 MB) looks at the impacts of the proposed Regulations (PDF, 376.7 KB). You can have your say on the Alpine Resorts (Management) RIS, please send your submissions to alpine.regulations@delwp.vic.gov.au by 5pm on Monday 24 August 2020."

Regulatory Impact Statement Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020
RIS - Page 5 Wheel chain provisions have been amended to align with forthcoming amendments to the Road Safety Road Rules 2017.[1] These have been updated following consultation with VicRoads
[1] The Road Safety Rules are anticipated to be amended soon in relation to wheel chains. Once this amendment occurs, the use of wheel chains will be managed entirely under the Road Safety Rules, and the parts of the proposed Regulations that require the use of wheel chains will have no further practical effect. Authorised officers of the Boards will still have the power to ask individuals in the resorts to leave if they fail to produce wheel chains or have them properly fitted.


RIS - Page 17-18 Road safety risks Roads in alpine areas can become very dangerous in wet or icy weather conditions, significantly increasing the risk of vehicle accidents resulting in personal injury, death or damage to vehicles and other property. The current regulations require that wheel chains (sometimes referred to as ‘snow chains’) must be carried by all vehicles entering the resorts during the snow season, except when Boards determine otherwise. At the direction of an authorised officer, wheel chains must be properly fitted to the drive wheels of vehicles, usually in poor weather conditions.

Similar requirements to carry wheel chains throughout the winter season and fit them where directed exist at alpine resorts in New South Wales (except for 4WD vehicles) and New Zealand. At northern hemisphere alpine resorts, such as in Canada and the USA, winter tyres are normally fitted to vehicles throughout winter in preference to fitting wheel chains.
An important general principle of safety management is that the on-site operator (in this case the Boards) should be responsible for assessing and minimising risks to public safety, rather than a regulator. In accordance with this principle, there is an expectation that the Boards exercise their waiver powers reasonably and responsibly and in strict accordance with internal policies and procedures. These responsibilities include real time assessments of the latest road and weather conditions as to whether wheel chains should be carried by all vehicles, or whether by only 2WD and not 4WD vehicles.
As there is no other legislation dealing with wheel chains in alpine resorts, there is a clear need for similar regulations to be remade in the interests of public safety and wellbeing. It is intended that forthcoming amendments to the Road Safety Rules by VicRoads will take over regulatory control on the use of wheel chains, however there may be a small window of time until those amendments commence. Hence, there is a short-term need to continue to ensure that the Regulations deal with the risk of damage to vehicles and people in vehicles if the vehicles cannot be sufficiently controlled in snow conditions.


___________________________________________________________________________

Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations Exposure Draft
https://www.forestsandreserves.vic....Draft-Alpine-Resorts-Management-Regs-2020.pdf
Page 22-23 Definitions in this Division In this Division—
snow tyre means a tyre that is specifically designed for driving on roads affected by snow or ice;
wheel chains means devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a vehicle to increase the traction of the wheels on a road affected by snow or ice.
 

snow drive solutions

One of Us
Ski Pass
Nov 26, 2019
119
276
163
MELBOURNE
www.snowdrivesolutions.com.au
IMG_1362.jpg


"I have all-wheel drive on my BMW X5 so I don't need winter tyres”


Acceleration with original equipment All-Season or All-Terrain tyres in winter conditions is relatively easy to achieve with AWD and 4WD. Driving is usually OK until there is a need to steer or stop in a hurry, and the tyres do not grip.
This is why you see so many SUVs and 4X4s off the road in alpine areas.
(thanks to PSW for the image)
 

sly_karma

Green Bastard
Ski Pass
Dec 12, 2005
22,767
17,338
1,063
Penticton, BC
Ok please don’t laugh at me but - chains on the rear wheels for AWDs, right?
Most AWD systems power the front wheels full-time, with the rears being brought online if slip is detected. So the front is the place for chains for such vehicles. And for true AWD systems like Subaru, fronts again.
 

Interruptedbyfireworks

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 1, 2018
2,368
7,169
363
Queanbeyan, NSW
Most AWD systems power the front wheels full-time, with the rears being brought online if slip is detected. So the front is the place for chains for such vehicles. And for true AWD systems like Subaru, fronts again.
Front wheels for me as well, for my Hyundai Santa Fe.

Make sure you wash your chains afterwards, I made a rookie mistake and forgot and they got a fair bit of surface rust. Anyway all fixed with WD-40 and a scrub:)
Thanks muchly. I have a Subaru so probably front. But will still check the manual once my garage gets above 7 degrees - interestingly my previous AWD (Suzuki Grand Vitara, cute little matchbox car) said rear-wheels in the manual
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonathan_P

snow drive solutions

One of Us
Ski Pass
Nov 26, 2019
119
276
163
MELBOURNE
www.snowdrivesolutions.com.au
The safety of any vehicle, especially the braking performance, is compromised if wheel chains are fitted to wheel and tyre combinations that are not approved for the fitting of wheel chains by the vehicle manufacturer.

The ‘Owners manual’ of your vehicle will detail what wheel and tyre combinations are approved for the fitting of wheel chains.

Wheel chains need to have firm compacted snow or ice to penetrate to provide the maximum amount of traction. Traction is often lost when the snow, and/or ice, begins to break up or melts and wheel slip/spin is experienced or in certain situations the vehicle can slide on the wheel chains. The safety of any vehicle, especially the braking performance, is compromised if wheel chains are used on a ‘bare’ road that is free of snow and ice. The problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.
 

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
1,645
3,239
363
Wheel chains should always be fitted to the drive wheels, and if full time 4WD then the steer wheels. Part time 4WD and on-demand AWD fit them to the main drive wheels, which as has been mentioned is the front wheels anyway for most modern cars. Older model Grand Vitaras had part time 4WD so required fitment to the rear. RTFM.
 

Interruptedbyfireworks

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 1, 2018
2,368
7,169
363
Queanbeyan, NSW
Does a Subaru provide much better traction than part time AWDs?
I have no idea, definitely a question for someone more knowledgeable about cars than I. It has a traction mode for going up hills at slow speed which I’ve used and liked. And then I put it into manual mode so I can change gears manually when needed since I’m so used to engine breaking going down hills
 
  • Like
Reactions: southpaw

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
1,645
3,239
363
The secret to driving in slippery conditions is to drive smoothly, no brakes, no sudden changes of direction. I was in a Statesman at Rennix on the flat years ago, I told the driver to slow right down before going downhill. The auto gearbox changed down a gear and that was enough to break traction and the back end slid out. Luckily he was on the flat and going slow enough to recover. (In a previous life I was a 4WD instructor).
 

Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,372
17,888
813
Eastern Subs Syd
The most important factor for me, is speed management. You must plan ahead. If you calculate you need to be at, and maintain 30kph, down a hill. You need to be at 30kph, before you get to the downhill, and in a fixed gear that will maintain 30kph all the way down, with throttle only adjustments, no brake input at all.

If you arrive at the downhill in 5th gear, doing 50kph. It's too late. You might as well start calling the Tow truck to pull you out of the embankment or ditch.
 

Interruptedbyfireworks

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 1, 2018
2,368
7,169
363
Queanbeyan, NSW
Mine is just putting the gear stick across to a spot that lets it go up and down.
So my gear stick at the bottom has D-M, for Drive or Manual. Interestingly the manual says if you press one of the gear shift paddles whilst in Drive (auto) mode it switches to Manual mode temporarily. I will have to try that.

It also says to fit snow chains on the front tires! So that’s answered that question.

And it calls the traction mode I referred to “X-mode”, which has hill ascent and descent assist functionality. Very cool.

This is a 2019 Subaru XV is anyone is interested.
 

teckel

Pool Room
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
50,976
25,505
1,515
Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
T

Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations Exposure Draft
https://www.forestsandreserves.vic....Draft-Alpine-Resorts-Management-Regs-2020.pdf
Page 22-23 Definitions in this Division In this Division—
snow tyre means a tyre that is specifically designed for driving on roads affected by snow or ice;
wheel chains means devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a vehicle to increase the traction of the wheels on a road affected by snow or ice.
Effectively bans ladder chains.
 

JindySuz

Hard Yards
Jun 27, 2019
17
67
63
I'd read the manual. Shouldn't need them in a subby anyway.
Subi's are the serial offenders of sliding off the road as many drivers think they are invincible and have a false sense of security. There is still a skill in controlling a Subi on challending roads.
 

skichic

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
May 26, 2003
19,541
24,724
813
Subi's are the serial offenders of sliding off the road as many drivers think they are invincible and have a false sense of security. There is still a skill in controlling a Subi on challending roads.
Awesome generalisation there!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jonathan_P
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass