Winter visitor number to Australian Ski Resorts

Dos

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I found a link to a presentation by Mt-Buller stating visitor number to Victorian ski resorts for 2012 season as follow.

Mt Buller 276,054
Mt Hotham 168,940
Falls Creek 151,208
Lake Mountain 106,318
Mt Baw Baw 54,213
Mt Stirling 5,229
Total 761,962

Ref: (A)


I was surprised with the numbers as they seemed to be too low because the only number I'd heard was of Thredbo.

I can't find any similar detailed report on this for NSW resorts. However, according to Wikipedia (B) Thredbo boasts Winter visitors of approximately 700,000. That's almost the same as total number for all VIC resorts combined. Assuming a 4-month season, there would be over 5800 people per day for 120 days. In reality June and Sep are shoulder/low season which means there are many more people during Jul and Aug to make up for it.

So... is the 700,000 visitor figure at Thredbo for real? If so, why is it so much different than VIC resorts? I'd have thought Buller would be most crowded seeing the close distance to Melbourne compared to that of Sydney to Thredbo.

What about Perisher and Selwyn? Anyone has the figures?

Sources:
(A) http://www.mtbuller.com.au/uploads/file/Community_Forum_Presentation_22_November_2012.pdf

(B) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thredbo,_New_South_Wales
 
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teckel

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Visitor days vs unique visitors?
eg: if you go to Thredbo for a week, do you count as a head count of 7 (1 for each day) or are you a headcount of just 1? Which comes down to how they're counted - by car entry, by beds, by lift tickets sold - all of which have their problems and consequent inaccuracies.
 

Charlie

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I think most resorts count cars and multiply by 3.5 (average per car)
Most also include their staff in the count
It's all prone to rorting!
 

Dos

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I think VIC resorts count by national park entry. The reason why I think this is that they have another graph showing number of nights stayed too.

Day trip - 75%
One night - 5%
Two nights - 10%
Three nights - 5%
Four nights - 2%
Five nights - 2.5%
Six nights - less than 1%
Seven nights - less than 1%

I'm doing the math to make it approximate visitor days
276054 x 75 / 100 x 1 = 207040
276054 x 5 / 100 x 2 = 27605
276054 x 10 / 100 x 3 = 82816
276054 x 5 / 100 x 4 = 55210
276054 x 2 / 100 x 5 = 27605
276054 x 2.5 / 100 x 6 = 41408
276054 x 0.5 / 100 x 7 = 9661
276054 x 0.5 / 100 x 8 = 11042

Total 462,390

That's still just about 66% of what Thredbo says 700,000.

What about Perisher? Anyone know the number? Maybe the easier road to the mountains and many tour operators and private tour groups like my own contribute to the figure?
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
Less than 1% stay a week? I doubt that's the case.

Well that's what their own figure says. And it seem consistent for the last three years they put on the graph.

Perhaps they count it based on "Number of days the vehicle tell the park entry boot when they pay". Some of them my do daily commute up and down for a week and pay daily, hence, counted as one-day visitor each time.
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
Dos. Try again. You used 2011 figures, not 2012 figures.
Your total of 462,390 - where did you pull that from? that's less than 2006. Figures for 2012 - 762,000

The number 462,390 is an approximate number I came up with by putting the numbers and percentage in formula shown above. The number isn't very accurate, just a rough idea.

762,000 is total number of visitor days for all resorts, not just Buller.
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
I see you've edited your OP. Better change it again and get the LM figure correct.

No, I changed my OP post to say I quoted figure 700,000 from Wikipedia, previously I said WikiSki and changed the link. Nothing to do with my calculation.
 
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teckel

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confused.gif
What are you saying? Where are you coming from?
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
I see you've edited your OP. Better change it again and get the LM figure correct.

Oh yes I've just realised about LM. I've changed it to 106,318.

Although, my calculation is based on Buller because it is comparable to Thredbo interms of service and slopes.
 
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Ian D

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Very very roughly from memory (and very variable on season)

Skier Days:
Perisher 600-700,000
Thredbo/Buller 400-450,000
Hotham 280-300,000
Falls 230-250,000

That is all a bit fuzzy but that is my recollection. That is skier days not unique visitors. It was also back in the days pre RFID so season pass holders were allocated an "average" amount, can't remember what that was.
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
confused.gif
What are you saying? Where are you coming from?

I thought you said I silently edited my OP post to change the numbers from 2011 to 2012 which wasn't the case so I just told you that the reason I edited it was because I thought I'd read 700,000 from WikiSki when in fact I'd read it from Wikipedia. That's why I changed it last night -- and I didn't touch the number. The LM figure was then only one I took from 2011, all other are on the yellow line.
 
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Dos

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I'm not saying I totally believe Wiki, but it's the only place I found saying it. I tried for several hours last night to find an official link to such statistics to verify this 700,000 thingy. I couldn't find any, hence, this thread.

I'm not trying to prove either one is more popular. I just want to know the numbers is all.
 

Nowada

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It makes perfect sense to me. Thredbo had snow and most runs open most of last season. In fact except for Selwyn NSW resorts had a very good season for snow fall and temps, did Buller ? Top of Thredbo is close to 300m higher than Buller. A lot of people stay in Jindy at very keen rates to ride at Thredbo or Perisher.
 

Dos

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Nowada said:
It makes perfect sense to me. Thredbo had snow and most runs open most of last season. In fact except for Selwyn NSW resorts had a very good season for snow fall and temps, did Buller ? Top of Thredbo is close to 300m higher than Buller. A lot of people stay in Jindy at very keen rates to ride at Thredbo or Perisher.

Last year I added 1 day to Perisher and 18 days to Thredbo. This coming Winter, if things go as planned, it will be more to Thredbo, six to Buller, and one each at Selwyn and Perisher.
 
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Ian D

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teckel said:
Well, apparently there's 7000 beds at Buller, but only 4150 at Thredbo (if you believe Wiki).

Jindabyne has a LOT of beds, not saying Mansfield doesn't but Jindy is MASSIVE for rentals.

Also number of beds doesn't equate to all slept in either. Buller has a LOT of private luxury apartments and club lodges. Neither of which (I am willing to bet) are full most of the time.
 
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Dos

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teckel said:
I'd say that 700,000 figure came from the marketing hype of someone unnamed and therefore should be totally ignored. Ian's figure of 4-450,000 sounds far more credible.

I think so. And I can't imagine Summer visitors to be 300,000 either.
 
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gettingtooold

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I'm a little confused here.{not hard to do) Not knowing the criteria of how "visitor" stats are compiled, so not sure of what these stats really mean. If day visitors to Buller count, there are bucketloads of people going to look at the snow, but not participating in snow sports. I'm sure those going to Hotham to look only would be heaps less. Would a more realistic criteria be the number of lift tickets issued? Of course it wouldn't be practicle for LM etc, but surely be a better indicator when planning infrastructure
 

teckel

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Ian D said:
teckel said:
Well, apparently there's 7000 beds at Buller, but only 4150 at Thredbo (if you believe Wiki).

Jindabyne has a LOT of beds, not saying Mansfield doesn't but Jindy is MASSIVE for rentals.

Also number of beds doesn't equate to all slept in either. Buller has a LOT of private luxury apartments and club lodges. Neither of which (I am willing to bet) are full most of the time.
And Buller has a huge number of days trippers from Melbourne which added to the Mansfield beds would leave Jindy for dead.
 
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teckel

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Dos said:
teckel said:
I'd say that 700,000 figure came from the marketing hype of someone unnamed and therefore should be totally ignored. Ian's figure of 4-450,000 sounds far more credible.

I think so. And I can't imagine Summer visitors to be 300,000 either.
Yes I think 300,000 has to be a complete joke. Mabye those figures are what feature in their dreams.
 
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DbSki

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Ian D said:
Also number of beds doesn't equate to all slept in either. Buller has a LOT of private luxury apartments and club lodges. Neither of which (I am willing to bet) are full most of the time.

Represented in the study done at Buller as Hot beds being available commercially for short term accom, or Cold beds in private properties and clubs not available to the general public.

Focusing on hot beds it found an over supply of high priced hot beds and a shortage of cold beds.
This may have assisted YHA in getting approval for the new place to increase lower priced hot beds, opposed by Grollo but he didnt get anywhere.
 
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Dos

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Telemark Phat said:
Have you been to Thredbo in summer lately Teckel? I personally counted 3000 people at Rawsons Pass on New Years Day over 3 hours alone.

I think New Year day is special. I don't think there'll be too many people outside school holiday period. I'll visit Thredbo next week and will try to observe this closely.

I've got lots of plans to do during my stay. I'll use lots of my legs' strength to achieve this. Maybe even more so than Winter. Hopefully, my legs can withstand the abuse.
 
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Dos

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Telemark Phat said:
Have you been to Thredbo in summer lately Teckel? I personally counted 3000 people at Rawsons Pass on New Years Day over 3 hours alone.

And talking about Summer, is it practical to do a quick walk from Kosi Express to Charlotte Pass and back by last lift if I get the first lift of the day?
 
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Cuppa

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Thredbo has postioned itself as a ski resort that has something to offer in summer. Blues festival, country music festival, other events such as mountain biking competitions, golf course, pool and open venues. Not mention the wonderful walks and scenery.
 

Nowada

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Thredbo would have loads of Day trippers or weekenders from Canberra about 2.5 hrs away, lets not forget Cooma 1 1/4 hr, or Berridale 50 minutes. In my experience most visitors are for 5 days or weekends, thats why the accommodations have them set up like that.
From here in NSW it looked a bad year for Buller. So to compare the numbers for last year against Thredbo may not be a fair assessment, IMO. I would also think the last two years have been pretty good for numbers on the hill for both Perisher and thredbo with the cheap freedom passes.
 

Ian D

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Dos said:
teckel said:
I'd say that 700,000 figure came from the marketing hype of someone unnamed and therefore should be totally ignored. Ian's figure of 4-450,000 sounds far more credible.

I think so. And I can't imagine Summer visitors to be 300,000 either.

I know for Thredbo that they do more bednights in Thredbo over summer than winter. That said Summer is 8 months and winter is 4 months and that is bed nights in Thredbo alone, so not including day trippers.

Also the numbers for Buller that I quoted were SKIER days, so not snow play people. There are a LOT of them.
 
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Richard

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700,000 seems like nonsense for winter visitation - annual more like it.

Thredbo's record year (from memory) is 2000 and it was approx 480,000 skier days - which is approx 250,000 unique visitors.

There is no way that another 450,000 visitors turned up but did not buy lift tickets - or even 220,000 non-skiing visitors during winter.



 

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teckel said:
Dos said:
teckel said:
I'd say that 700,000 figure came from the marketing hype of someone unnamed and therefore should be totally ignored. Ian's figure of 4-450,000 sounds far more credible.

I think so. And I can't imagine Summer visitors to be 300,000 either.
Yes I think 300,000 has to be a complete joke. Mabye those figures are what feature in their dreams.

300,000 over summer is 9,375 a week over the '8 months of summer'. Around 1340 a night. Do-able.

They are big on MTB. Big on walks. Heaps of day trippers. The chair runs every day of the year. They have an olympic sized pool with a kids' fun slide / waterslide, a golf course, tennis and a bobsled. Yep, heaps of them are kinda dinky but they are all there. Pretty popular with weddings, most times I am there out of season I have seen one on so I imagine there are a few I didn't see as well, and they happen in winter as well.

"Declaring days" is a balance between proving to be a commercial success to the market (and your owners!), and limiting liability and expense to the regulators.

People also live in Thredbo. Not big numbers but they are there.
 
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Donza

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Tecks...been to Thredbo in summer recently?

Tried to get a park?

seen all the festivals? events etc? they put on?

I would say, that figure is easy to obtain.
 

Richard

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I've got confirmed numbers here from data presented to the WOI conference last year. Not sure if I can share but here is the gist of it.

Thredbo - range of 420,000-480,000 skier days is correct - average stay is 2.5 days (NSW resorts) so approx 192,000 visitors max during winter.
 

Richard

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Thredbo's highest occupancy of the year is the Xmas - New Year week. Resort is at total bed limit capacity. Rest of January is like mid snow season. Would easily make 300,000 visitor days for summer. Average summer stay is probably a tad longer at 2.9 ish.

I'm guessing the figure of 700,000 is visitor days annual in 2008* and not unique visitors. Unique visitors would be in the 280-300K range.

(smh article written in Nov 2008)
 

Dos

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I'm at Thredbo now. There are very very few people at the moment, almost haunted.

From my rough count, I think there are no more than 200 people walking the Kosi Track and about 70 bike riders. And I must say that the numbers are very very lenient.

Perhaps its because the forecast says it would be raining today, which is part right. A bit of very light shower every now and then and low cloud. The walk track got white-out a few times in the afternoon. Kinda cool experience. Would freak out if this happened in winter and I got trapped in one.

Ps. I saw one female rider today. I so admire her courage. I would never have one.
 
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